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That was once a simple question but today if you look at the Omega site, you will have your choice of twelve Speedy Pro versions and five 50th LEs - without even considering the automatics. A total of seventeen to choose from!

And Omega marketing would have you believe that thirteen of the seventeen share the same Lemania movement worn on the moon. NOT!

The price of the basic 3570.50 Speedy is up to $3200 MSRP but many first time buyers shy away from the hesalite and go for the sapphire sandwich with a MSRP of over $4000.

At these prices with normal discounting, one could purchase the same model actually worn by the moonwalkers; a 105.012 or perhaps even a 105.003.

I went through a bunch of Speedy Pros “similar” to the ones worn on the moon until I decided that only the exact model would do for me. As a result, I bought this 105.012 off the famous auction site for less than $1300:


Admittedly, prices have increased since I bought this one three years ago but nice ones can still be bought for $2K or so.

So when buying your first Speedy, why not go for the real thing rather than a “look alike”? It makes the decision simple again.

Fr. John+
 

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Heh, Heh Brother John

Well, you have a point. It's just that for some of us, a new look-alike :biggrin: comes with warranty and back-up which a 40+ year-young watch doesn't. That said, the 105.012 or indeed a 105.002, 105.003, 145.012 would be very pleasing to own :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Mind you with discounts, your 40yr-old number calls for higher numbers in wallet and card terms........... Over here anyway, 105xxx tend to be offered at GBP2400 or USD4800... :eek:


While you're on, can you please help out Mr Teo who needs advice on a 3521.30

http://watchtalkforums.info/forums/showthread.php?t=1700

Thanks Bud :thumbup1:


Have a gr8 weekend Bro


ZIN
 

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Hi Fr.John,

Myself and Zin were having this very same discussion on PMs at the beginning of this week.

I too believe you can't get better in the Moon Watch line up than the Cal. 321 145.012 (and it's ilk) original.

However, as Zin says, how many out there can you truly guarantee are original and come with any sort of warranty for the price, or thereabouts, of a brand spanking new 3570.50?

And may I also say: $1300! What a bargain. Well done Sir.:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
While you're on, can you please help out Mr Teo who needs advice on a 3521.30
I saw that post Br. ZIN and I'm afraid I can't help. All I know is that it has the Valjoux movement and I don't keep up with those.

And BTW, I would still prefer $3-4K invested in a 105.012 than any "look-alike" model on my AD's shelf. :biggrin:

As for the value of a warranty, I've never had any warranty work performed nor would I. I would prefer to take it to my local watchmaker and pay him out of my pocket than to have an Omega service center touch my watches.

Fr. John+
 

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I myself am dealing with this issue. I don't know which speedy to buy and that is what has be on the side lines. I will start up a thread in a few months once I feel I get closer to a choice.
 

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You have a point Bro but it's also probably less expensive to find them in the good ole' US of A since as you know we have to pay import duty and taxes here :sad:

Their values will continue rise but then so will those of the newer Speedies which from a collector's point of view is not a good thing. I guess it's also to do with what one is seeking. I look at a cal 321 and think hey, it's one of the originals and then again I look at a modern Speedy and enjoy the freshness of its' appearance which is why I would consider getting say a " Hello Houston " before a 145.022 or a Snoopy Ed before a 105xxx though a 145.012 may just sneak in ahead of an Apollo XV LE. While at times I can appreciate the appearance of Patina, I don't always go for it either :001_rolleyes:


Have a good weekend Bro


Brother ZIN
 

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Hey John,

For a person that is into the Speedies and knows the history and ins and outs the originals would be an attractive buy,

but:001_rolleyes:,

for the person asking this question they are not likely to be a WIS and hence spending anything over a $1000.00 for a second hand watch will be hard,especially with no warranty and no guarantee that the item is genuine.

For an Omega buff the decision is a lot easier armed with the right knowledge.:wink:
 

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Nice shot Mr Miniac - there's something magical about a Speedy Pro, new, historic or from any other era :thumbup1:

And nothing beats it in any way, shape or form :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Be well pals


ZIN
 

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:)

you know Fr. John, I've been asking that same question for about a year
now... still haven't gotten a difinitive answer..:lol:

diver88:):)
 

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I agree that a Speedy Pro needs to be a proper Lemania movement, Hesalite crystal moon watch. (with steel bracelet or Velcro strap)

I would certainly 'settle' for a new (current Valjoux movement) version; however there is only one true speedy pro moon watch as far as I'm concerned.

Now for clarification to all (including myself) who don't know for sure...

The speedy pro is still approved for space travel and EVA, whereas no other watch is approved for EVA (from Omega or any other brand). What I am unclear on, is weather NASA is issuing the current speedy pro for EVA, the old [previously issued] Speedy Pro is 'allowed' for EVA, or if NASA has an old stock of new (old Lemania movement) Speedy Pros that they will continue to issue until that stock is depleted...

Does anyone REALLY know for sure what is going on with this???:huh:
 

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:)

Jim,

all of the true "moon watch" talk is kind of beyond me.. so that exact movement would be really neat but doesn't really have to be a requirement for me to possibly enjoy a Speedmaster. I would really like to have one that has truly been to outerspace, outside of that it's all relative to me.

so to ask again, other than the sapphire front and back vs the hesalte and steel back, any other differences in the current offerings?

the 15th is coming quickly,

diver88:):)
 

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Hi Terry

all of the true "moon watch" talk is kind of beyond me.. so that exact movement would be really neat but doesn't really have to be a requirement for me to possibly enjoy a Speedmaster. I would really like to have one that has truly been to outerspace, outside of that it's all relative to me.

The c321 ( pre-moon ) like Fr John's 105.012 is no longer available BNIB. Indeed neither is its' successor ( in movement terms ), the c861.

Hence you are left with the hesalite/steel c1861 which is the 3570.50 like the one Theis and many other folk have. It's a nice watch and since its' a direct descendant, shares all the history of the Omega Speedmaster.

so to ask again, other than the sapphire front and back vs the hesalte and steel back, any other differences in the current offerings?

The 3573.50 has a cal 1863 which is decorated with an extra jewel, a metal brake and Geneva waves on the movement.

The 3570.50 uses a cal 1861 with 17 jewels, Delryn ( synthetic ) brake and no Geneva wave decor. Of course, you see none of these because of the steel back.

There is the newly-released chocolate dial



which is priced just a little higher than the 3573.50. It may be the same price as the 3573.50 in the US. I don't know as I have not received an updated US price list.


Now for admirers of the Speedy Pro, the vision of the movement is simply the 8th wonder of the world. It's a marvel in the eyes of the owner of the watch. Both the choco dial and the 3573.50 offer you this unique view.



and highlighting the Geneva waves




That help amigo?


WISh you well in the hunt :thumbup:


Cheerio for now pal


ZIN
 

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Have to agree with you Zin. I found the different level of "purist" definitions interesting but not having much influence in what I'd want in my current or next Speedy. My only real preference was having a sapphire crystal and the basic 1861/3 manual wind movement. The 50th LE has both and I couldn't be more thrilled with the watch. Price was good, looks great and stays at about +1 second per day. Just don't think you could go wrong with any of the current line.
Mike
 

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Well Jim if I understand your question correctly, I would have thought that supplies of the old stock ( c321 ) Speedy Pro must have run out by now and as the following chart by Roman Hartman shows,



or in fact in Ricciardo Canova and Gino Balbi's list

http://watchtalkforums.info/forums/showthread.php?t=949

the c861 in Speedy case ref 145.022 was also used in space. With astronauts still requesting the watch as reported in the following article

http://www.nasaexplores.com/show2_articlea.php?id=02-024

it would probably be safe to say that NASA had continued to replenish their stock of manually-wound Speedy Pros. I have no idea if the c1861 has been used in space. The caliber was introduced into a Speedy for the first time in 1997. It would depend on how many c861 Speedies NASA bought.

Fr John, GJ and Kieron no doubt may be able to contribute more.


OK Pal :001_smile:


Be well now



ZIN
 

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Hi Zin,

What were the differences made to the c1861 from the c861?

I'm sure I could find this out myself but I might as well take a sip from your goblet of knowledge.:biggrin:
 

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OK you knew I knew you knew I was kiddin'

The 1861 has a rhodium-plating while the 861 was initially pink gold and then yellow gold. The brake initially in metal was changed to Delryn, a synthetic material which was self-lubricating

Here's an extract from the writings of that great and knowledgeable Jean-Michel who has referred to the Speedmaster as a sort of Porsche 911 of watches. Isn't he so right though!!! :thumbup1:

Note on the movement : Introduced in the Speedmaster Professional in 1968 : had the following changes introduced during its life :

- 1974 : introduction of the Delrin Brake in order to prevent wear of the central second pinions

- 1980 : introduction of a luxury version with high finish named 863 (watch sold with display backs)

- 1992 : replacement of the rose gold plating by yellow gold plating

- 1996 : introduction of the 1861 / 1863 caliber : rhodium plated


OK amigo?


Are you ready to make your EVA yet? ;)


Cheerio for now


ZIN
 

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Brilliant, informative and fast response as always Zin.:thumbup:

So, what we can conclude here is that any over the counter Hesalite Moon Watch (of course, I'm thinking of my new aquisition here specifically:biggrin:) has been passed by NASA for EVA. Am I right? Please say I'm right?
 

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Yes, Yes, Yes

:lol::lol::lol:


You have to get your space suit following acceptance and training on the program first before being allowed to perform an EVA.

You can always do it in your front room. Just dim the lights and borrow James's Moon on the Wall. Just make sure that if you take pictures, don't show the flag flying :D:D:D


TTFN pal



ZIN
 
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