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Anyone heard about a France brand named Citole? I want to buy 2 wristwatches for my sister and her husbands as presents in order to celebrate their wedding anniversary. How about the qualities and prices of this France brand? I just found 2 different kinds which look pretty good in the Internet, one is leather strap watch [non-sponsor link removed] and the other is quartz wristwatch with stainless steel watch band like [non-sponsor link removed] . What do you think about that? Which one is a better choice? Can you tell me about your opinions? Thanks.
 

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I suppose the prices are okay - however I wouldn't put too much faith in the term "French Brand" as this could mean absolutely anything. My guess is that though the price looks alright the watches are sourced from a Chinese factory and sold for many many many times what they actually cost to produce.

I've stressed "many" because actually almost every watch manufacturer charges much more than what it costs to manufacture a watch. With the more upscale watches a huge chunk is spent on endorsements, advertising, packaging and retailing.

But here's some options if you are looking for his and her's watches which will last and not break the bank look for the following brands:

1. Tissot (Swiss part of Swatch Group) (google Tissot Couterier and Tissot Classic Dream these will be about 500+ for the pair)
2. Casio (for about the same amount of money as the wathces you listed - these will gave many years of service) (for a nice example google CASIO Standard Analog COUPLE Watches LTP-MTP-1215A NEW)

I think other members can jump in and suggest a few more alternatives.

Good luck in the hunt

zach
 

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Anyone heard about a France brand named Citole? I want to buy 2 wristwatches for my sister and her husbands as presents in order to celebrate their wedding anniversary. How about the qualities and prices of this France brand? I just found 2 different kinds which look pretty good in the Internet, one is leather strap watch [non-sponsor link removed] and the other is quartz wristwatch with stainless steel watch band like [non-sponsor link removed] . What do you think about that? Which one is a better choice? Can you tell me about your opinions? Thanks.
Hi Fanny
First welcome to the forums.

Try going to Ebay and doing an advanced search (there is a tip in beginners forum how to do it)
There you may find similar things.

French watches are fine. Breguet (the GREATEST dead watch maker) was French as is Jaeger leCoultre.

But the modern watches you mention, may be a French Company but inside will be from China (worst case) or Switzerland (best case)

Good luck. Report back
 

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fanny: my 2 cents worth: make sure your sister and husband are ok with his and her watches--i suspect you know this already. some people dislike "his and her" because it reminds them of avacado colored toasters and shag carpeting (his and her was a big thing in the 70's). second, the man's watches (both 34mm) are pretty small by today's standards and i have seen that width for women's watches. this is a judgement call on your part but if the guy is of average build or larger 34mm will be very small--especially the round watch.

i looked at the pictures and the watches, for the cost, look ok but they do not strike me as something that would hold up for the long haul. i suspect the movements are chinese as if they were japanese, or especially swiss, the seller would have indicated this as these 2 countries, especially switzerland, produce quality movements. the ad says "imported" without a country so i suspect chinese.

as a post note: i was curous about his/her watches so i went to amazon and ebay and pickings are slim so you may have found a set that might work for you. i would not worry too much about the chinese quartz--it is, afterall, a quartz movement which costs almost next to nothing to make. if size is the issue the square watch will work better than the round watch.
 

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By and large, the greatest majority of present day watch brands are contract production companies. This includes Swiss and French brands. Manufacturing is sourced out all over the globe according to the targeted price point and the bottom line.

Quality does not depend on a label or the asking price and never really has. Quality does not depend on national, regional, or racial factors either. There are very good to very bad watches being made all over the globe. This includes both Swiss and French brand watches. Good quality is always decided by excellent materials and manufacturing methods, skilled labor, attention to detail, and good QC.

My best advice is to learn how to recognize good quality. Then look closely and carefully at what you have purchased before you decide to keep it. Quickly return the junk to the seller for a refund and try again until you find what you want. In other words, CAVEAT EMPTOR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you for your tips. I learned much here.
I think I cannot afford the watches with famous brands which cost much more than those I mentioned before, so I choose the watches which are more cheaper.
I do very agree with silent sam. As he said, "Quality does not depend on a label or the asking price and never really has. Quality does not depend on national, regional, or racial factors either. There are very good to very bad watches being made all over the globe. This includes both Swiss and French brand watches. Good quality is always decided by excellent materials and manufacturing methods, skilled labor, attention to detail, and good QC. "
I think it is very useful for me. Thanks again.:001_tongue:
 

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it sort of feels like i was p.c.'ed when i stated the movement is most likely chinese and not to worry about the quality as the movement is quartz. there was nothing racial said about chinese or any other racial group, rather, a given geographical locale that is made up of a relatively homogenous population. a given homogenous group does have some variability to be sure but that group may be behind in technology or technique at any given point in time and their ability to produce something may, at a given point in time, be lacking. historical examples abound: 1950-1960's made in japan was considered less than good but in the late 1970's made in japan meant better than good. the yugo and the current indian car are great examples or a homogenous population making less than good automobiles. this has nothing to do with a yugoslavian or indian working at a toyota plant, rather, the yugoslavians (back when it was yugoslavia and they were making yugos) and indians (read: the country) are making low quality cars. 10 years ago the chinese could not make a decent classical guitar to save their lives but now they are catching up to the rest of the world--in part because of their cheap labor a couple of companies are now having spanish designed guitars made there.

as to regional and geographical locales excelling at a given product, there is valid historical evidence that a given population does excel over and beyond other geographical locations at a given point in time. it is through technological/human migration that other geographical locations catch up. there is ample evidence of this in any introductory history book. through the first half of the 20th century the united states was considered the geographical location for quality automobiles. in 1950 it probably could be safely said that the united states was the place to have an automobile made. in 1990 many would have disagreed with that statement, or at least a united states company designed and built automobile--the japanese were building in america.

as to the comments about quality not being equated to a label. unfortunately there is a fatal flaw in that logic. a label represents something that consumers have come to equate with the quality be it high quality or low quality. examples abound without limits. sony is a great example. the label sony to most people will say: the quality of this product is likely to be well above average because sony has proven themselves over the years. rolex is another example. on the flip side, there are products whose quality over the years has been suspect and therefore people associate that label with poor quality. a label, assuming it is a legit label represents the history of that company up to the present and suggests a high probability the product one is holding in their hand is of the same quality.

as to comment about price: i think the old adage, you get what you pay for is a reasonable philosophy to live by. true, some things may be unnecessarily overpriced but for the most part, we do get what we pay for.
 

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wow! That is some great reply. Lots of accurate thought there. well Done and thanks for taking time to post them
Hope others read and take note

Regards
 

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"...as to the comments about quality not being equated to a label. unfortunately there is a fatal flaw in that logic. a label represents something that consumers have come to equate with the quality be it high quality or low quality... a label, assuming it is a legit label represents the history of that company up to the present and suggests a high probability the product one is holding in their hand is of the same quality... i think the old adage, you get what you pay for is a reasonable philosophy to live by. true, some things may be unnecessarily overpriced but for the most part, we do get what we pay for."
I respectfully disagree. Modern venture capitalists frequently purchase a well known and trusted brand name or label for the sole purpose of exploiting the inherent trust factor. All too often, the new management cheapens the quality and raises the price at the same time. Blue jeans? Levis or Lees. Watches? Waltham, Bulova, or Invicta. Rolex? A very well made watch. Overpriced, I think most of us acknowledge this. So the Rolex label is being unwisely exploited by grossly overpricing the product. The result is that the label is also being easily exploited by counterfeiters who can economically produce very profitable copies which are close enough in quality to fool even the wary. I could list many more recognized and trusted brand names that have been unwisely exploited, but I think my point is made. We modern consumers get a fair deal only if we are knowledgeable and careful. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

As you have already acknowledged, modern technology is far too easily transported to remain a regional factor in the modern world. Also, it is best to realize that except for modern materials and methods like computer controlled machining, photo duplication, etc., mechanical watch making is very old technology. Even modern quartz watch technology is no longer new. So the idea or concept is well recognized and understood almost everywhere in the industrialized world by now.

We must realize that aside from individual differences found anywhere, all humans inherently share the same abilities regardless of race, region, or ethnicity. Aside from different regional environments, what makes all the difference is the attitude of the political and business leadership of any society. Wise leaders encourage and provide for excellent education and upbringing, proper training, good facilities, excellent quality control and fair wages. Doing so motivates and enables any work force to do excellent work. This concept or idea is far too portable as well. Unfortunately, it is not always wisely recognized.

The Russians have an excellent saying, "A fish rots from the head down". In other words, bad leadership degrades any society. However, a good idea will take hold anywhere it finds acceptance at the highest levels. It is like casting good seed on fertile ground.
 

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Rolex? A very well made watch. Overpriced, I think most of us acknowledge this.
I see the point you're making about why Rolex gets counterfeited so often, but the above portion is arguable. For a respected Swiss brand that uses in-house movements for it's entire line-up Rolex is comparatively inexpensive.
 

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a label remains a symbol as long as what made it a symbol (be it good or bad) remains the same. if the quality changes so does the symbolism of the label. over time that label will change as to what it means. an example is honda for cars (once thought of as junk and now held in high esteem) and ford (once held in high esteem then held in low esteem and now regaining its esteem).

i saw a video on the internet of how to make a watch but i do not have the tools, skills, components, etc. it will take me a long time to develop those skills. likewise for a given geographical population. when i finally get the tools, components and perfect my skills i am then dependent on my buyiers. if my buyers want a cheap product, and i have rent to pay, it is likely i will make a cheap product and will not develop the skills that makes the product superior. ditto for the flipslide.

there is a mistaken belief that all humans have the capacity to excel at anything and all humans share the same abilities. unfortunately people mix this up with all humans have certain rights (or should have) to live free and excel. as we all know, just because we are of the same genus and species does not give us the same genetic capabilities to succeed at something. as much as we would like it to be the reality is it is not the case.
 

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Really !!

a label remains a symbol as long as what made it a symbol (be it good or bad) remains the same. if the quality changes so does the symbolism of the label. over time that label will change as to what it means. an example is honda for cars (once thought of as junk and now held in high esteem) and ford (once held in high esteem then held in low esteem and now regaining its esteem).

i saw a video on the internet of how to make a watch but i do not have the tools, skills, components, etc. it will take me a long time to develop those skills. likewise for a given geographical population. when i finally get the tools, components and perfect my skills i am then dependent on my buyiers. if my buyers want a cheap product, and i have rent to pay, it is likely i will make a cheap product and will not develop the skills that makes the product superior. ditto for the flipslide.

there is a mistaken belief that all humans have the capacity to excel at anything and all humans share the same abilities. unfortunately people mix this up with all humans have certain rights (or should have) to live free and excel. as we all know, just because we are of the same genus and species does not give us the same genetic capabilities to succeed at something. as much as we would like it to be the reality is it is not the case.[/QUOTE]

Really ! So.....Swiss fingers are Superior to Asian Fingers ?? What an embarassing statement for me to have to read :blushing:
Some of us have Greater genetic capabilities than others ?? Hmmmmm....seems to me that there was a rather belligerant group of folks in 1940's Germany that believed that very sort of thing....How embarassing that anyone would still believe this. Really !!

JMO,
bob
 

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Yep

I respectfully disagree. Modern venture capitalists frequently purchase a well known and trusted brand name or label for the sole purpose of exploiting the inherent trust factor. All too often, the new management cheapens the quality and raises the price at the same time. Blue jeans? Levis or Lees. Watches? Waltham, Bulova, or Invicta. Rolex? A very well made watch. Overpriced, I think most of us acknowledge this. So the Rolex label is being unwisely exploited by grossly overpricing the product. The result is that the label is also being easily exploited by counterfeiters who can economically produce very profitable copies which are close enough in quality to fool even the wary. I could list many more recognized and trusted brand names that have been unwisely exploited, but I think my point is made. We modern consumers get a fair deal only if we are knowledgeable and careful. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

As you have already acknowledged, modern technology is far too easily transported to remain a regional factor in the modern world. Also, it is best to realize that except for modern materials and methods like computer controlled machining, photo duplication, etc., mechanical watch making is very old technology. Even modern quartz watch technology is no longer new. So the idea or concept is well recognized and understood almost everywhere in the industrialized world by now.

We must realize that aside from individual differences found anywhere, all humans inherently share the same abilities regardless of race, region, or ethnicity. Aside from different regional environments, what makes all the difference is the attitude of the political and business leadership of any society. Wise leaders encourage and provide for excellent education and upbringing, proper training, good facilities, excellent quality control and fair wages. Doing so motivates and enables any work force to do excellent work. This concept or idea is far too portable as well. Unfortunately, it is not always wisely recognized.

The Russians have an excellent saying, "A fish rots from the head down". In other words, bad leadership degrades any society. However, a good idea will take hold anywhere it finds acceptance at the highest levels. It is like casting good seed on fertile ground.
Sam : When you are right....you are very right. I could not not have said this any better myself ( and I thought about it ). :thumbup:

Regards,
bob
 

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Mercedes Benz vs Rolls Royce

I see the point you're making about why Rolex gets counterfeited so often, but the above portion is arguable. For a respected Swiss brand that uses in-house movements for it's entire line-up Rolex is comparatively inexpensive.
ULF : Respectfully, to say that Rolex is " comparatively " inexpensive, requires the basis of camparison to be as " comparatively " out of sight.
I can be more concise : There ain't no watch nowhere, nohow, that is worth more than $ 1000.00. Any attempt to make it otherwise, is a pointed effort to increase value by overinflation of value in materials and/or labor or perception.
My quartz Casio has the same number of hours, minutes, and seconds as any other watch, and I am inclined to believe that it keeps time more accurately than most.
Everyone should enjoy their watches, and should buy what they like & like what they buy......I know I do. But....I hold No illusions as to what I am buying.

This of course is only my opinion,
Regards,
bob
 

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"There ain't no watch nowhere, nohow, that is worth more than $ 1000.00" Now that is just a denial of Economics 101. Every item is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. ---------------------------------------------------------- "My quartz Casio has the same number of hours, minutes, and seconds as any other watch, and I am inclined to believe that it keeps time more accurately than most.
Everyone should enjoy their watches, and should buy what they like & like what they buy......I know I do. But....I hold No illusions as to what I am buying"" ------- This statement contradicts the first one. You are apparently interested only in the utility of a watch but I think many of us on this forum are more intereted in other things and those things have value to us for which we are willing to pay.
 

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Mercedes Benz vs Rolls Royce
How about Mercedes Benz vs Yugo? Both cars have the same number of wheels and do exactly the same function. I guess using your argument you could say no car is worth more than $10,000. :001_rolleyes:
 

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harelquin--nowhere did i say swiss fingers are superior to chinese fingers nor did i imply anything about one racial group over another. i was pretty clear in what i said and there was nothing in that statement that said one group was superior (whatever that may mean) to another group. if you read what i said, you will see that i delineated the right to be free and to excel, which i believe in from the capacity to succeed, or more appropriately, to perform at the highest levels in whatever domain one chooses. and yes, individuals within various populations throughout the world do have greater genetic capacities for a variety of things. you will find the variance is greater within a specified population than between specified populations.
 

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ULF :
I can be more concise : There ain't no watch nowhere, nohow, that is worth more than $ 1000.00.
bob
what a load of BoLLoX
where, how you come up with that figure?

and of course we know (respectfully) that "is only your opinion" who else could it be?
 

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I think the thread and the statement in question is in context to mass produced, stainless steel watches, French or otherwise. It is not about fully hand crafted works of art or jewel encrusted solid gold or platinum status objects. If so, then I agree. $1000 should buy anyone as good a stainless mass produced mechanical or quartz watch as can be made.

I have purchased some excellent watches for less than half that figure. I'm wearing one right now--a very well crafted Philip Swan w/ a very accurate Eta Valjoux 7750 movement. Cost? $420 NIB--$450 if I figure in the aftermarket havana brown genuine teju lizard strap. Yes, it is not a Rolex Submariner. So what. It's more watch for far less IMO. What made my astute purchase possible? An excellent, realistic sale price and a good education. I am a smart consumer with the ability to learn the ropes. I have learned to think and to decide in a shrewd informed manner because of my excellent education.

Ignorance is not bliss in today's world. Neither is overpaying for anything in order to get good quality.
 
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