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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys !

I said that I was not going to turn any screws over the holiday but I just could not help myself when this one arrived early this week!

It is a VERY common misconception that this style of movement and case is incorrect together.



This is a 1918 Black Star Dial Elgin Trench Watch with an "open face" 7 jewel movement that is set inside a sterling silver cushion style trench watch case.

You are probably saying that it looks a bit odd, the movement is offset by 90 degrees to the right !

Most collectors would probably stay away from something like this because they do not think that it looks correct with the 12 at the normal 3 o'clock position, they would in fact be WRONG ! ! !

And here is the PROOF to back it up ! ! !

This is the ONLY known ad that shows an Elgin "White Star Dial" Trench Watch with ANY case style.



This is an AD dating back to October 30, 1918 from a publication called "The Jeweler's Circular", this was a trade publication for jewelers and jobber watchmakers.

The AD clearly shows this case style and open face movement style together in one watch.

The "Star Dial Series" from Elgin first came out in October of 1917 and there were 4 dials within the series.

The AD shows the 2nd dial that came out in the series of 4 with an exaggerated 12 - 3 - 9 that had a white face.

This "black star dial" Elgin is the 3rd in the series of 4 that was first available in May of 1918.

The first 2 dials in the series were both white, the last 2 in the series were both black.












Looks pretty nice for being 94 years old ! ! ! !
 

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Brilliant Stan....

What a cool piece of Horology... You have become the Pershing Master!

I would love to see a movment shot to see how it is configured
in the case.

You are right...

Without that ad, one would think that was wrong for SURE!

Super stuff Stan!:thumbup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Here you go Greg.

This watch style was worn on the INSIDE of the wrist, not the outside.

This way when you look at the palm side of your wrist the "12" is straight up and down.

 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I just finished up with the 14k gold filled one in the center this morning so I thought that a nice group family picture was in order ! ! !

All 3 of these cases were made the the Illinois Watch Case Company, they were only about 2 miles up the road from the Elgin National Watch Company.

Starting from the left.

1. 1918 Black Star Dial Elgin, Sterling Silver Case, 7 jewels, size 3/0s.

2. 1916 Shadow Box Dial, 14k Gold Filled Case, 15 jewels, size 3/0s.

3. 1918 Arabic RED 12 Dial, Sterling Silver Case with an Offset Crown, 7 jewels, size 3/0s.





What a difference the dial can make, they look similar but completely different at the same time.

(the rarest one is number 3 if you were wondering)
 

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I just finished up with the 14k gold filled one in the center this morning so I thought that a nice group family picture was in order ! ! !

All 3 of these cases were made the the Illinois Watch Case Company, they were only about 2 miles up the road from the Elgin National Watch Company.

Starting from the left.

1. 1918 Black Star Dial Elgin, Sterling Silver Case, 7 jewels, size 3/0s.

2. 1916 Shadow Box Dial, 14k Gold Filled Case, 15 jewels, size 3/0s.

3. 1918 Arabic RED 12 Dial, Sterling Silver Case with an Offset Crown, 7 jewels, size 3/0s.





What a difference the dial can make, they look similar but completely different at the same time.

(the rarest one is number 3 if you were wondering)

That 3rd one is a JAW DROPPER Stan...

I have NEVER seen that combo before!

WOW!

You have outdone yourself my friend:001_tt1:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks A!

Here are a couple more ads showing the squared trench cases with rounded edges.






And here are two more of these Elgins with the squared sterling silver Illinois cases with the rounded edges.


Enamel dial.




Metal silvered dial.




If you want to see more you're just going to have to buy my book ! ! ! ! !
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This is the UBER RARE Bold Arabic Military Dial with FACTORY 24 HOUR TIME ! ! ! ! !

The RED 13 - 24 are FIRED into the enamel dial, they were NOT added after the fact ! ! ! ! !

The side view is great, no doubt that it's real.



 

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All great stuff Stan, impressive.
I surely buy your book, and the Museum library will buy 2 copies after I review it.

Stan, Take a look at the Elgin I posted for sale on the NAWCC sales site, I think it could be perfect for you.

Kind Regards
Adam
PS Only a fool would buy a watch with an offset crown. How do they know which way is up? Ah - the RED 12
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
This is yesterday's project with the enamel BOLD Arabic 24 Hour Military Dial.
(actually got it all back together early this morning)


1917 Elgin with a Sterling Silver Illinois Cuhion Trench Case, 7 jewels, grade 462, size 3/0s.














 
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