[Hamilton1219]

I have two Hamiltons I would like to get some information or feedback on;
A) I believe a 1926 wristwatch. 17 jewel 986A, Serial Number 2188832. The casing is "Keystone Victory 10K Rolled Gold Plate 109 8856" . What is unique (or not) about this face is the lack of a second hand. I have seen very few watches circa this time period without a second hand.
B) I believe it is a 1973-1975 wristwatch. Again, a unique feature is the position of the date and day display.

Any comments would be welcome. Thank you.

 

[Davemcc]

The Day/Date model is an Auto Date Chadwick which appears in the 1976 catalog. I don't know whether it appears before or after that as well because I don't have access to those catalogs. The electroplate model listed for $195 in '76 and the stainless for $170.

I have bad news on the second example. It's not a Hamilton case. It's a jobber case with a Hamilton movement. I think I have three of them now. The approximate value of this case is free with the purchase of the movement. (They make a good shipping case to protect a parts movement during shipping. That's how I acquired the last one. The one before that was just free.) That's not to say that a clean, running example doesn't have some value but not the same as a genuine Hamilton.

The value in this one is in the movement. The 986A was the workhorse of it era and was fitted in many models in the late 20's and early 30's. I have been trying for quite some time to locate a set of those hands.

They come in different dial configurations and case colors. Here's a gold one with gold numerals and rose gold with enamel dial.

 

[Hamilton1219]

Thanks Davemoc. I appreciate your feedback. I'm glad I put a question mark in front of Unique. So the 1926 movement is actually for a second hand as well? Is the Keystone Victory Rolled Gold plate original to the 1926 or does it belong to some other style/watch?
I guess my options would be to get an original case/face or sell the movement. It's in great shape.

 

[Davemcc]

Thanks Davemoc. I appreciate your feedback. I'm glad I put a question mark in front of Unique. So the 1926 movement is actually for a second hand as well? Is the Keystone Victory Rolled Gold plate original to the 1926 or does it belong to some other style/watch?
I guess my options would be to get an original case/face or sell the movement. It's in great shape.

The 986A came with and without a second hand (I think...I don't know the early models as well as some other members). It was used in the Cushion and Square models among others. This case is what we refer to as a jobber case. The case and dial were more of a cheap replacement for a worn out/damaged watch case with an otherwise good movement. It allowed a good movement to serve for many more years or decades as yours demonstrates.

Don't forget option 3. You could wear it for what it is. A vintage watch in nice condition with it's own history. The movement might fetch $40-60 so you'll have to decide if that's worth selling the watch vs. wearing it.

 

[stales]

All correct Dave; no seconds "complication" on the 986A movement.

It was also used in the early "Cushion" model like this one from 1924.

 

[Davemcc]

This one is also a 986A, IIRC.

Edit - Upon further discussion, this cushion must have the 987 since it has the seconds hand. Apparently, the 986A does not come with seconds hands at all.

 

[Indyago]

Very Interesting

I wonder how this one, particular style of case got used for so many re-casings? It would almost seem there was a marketing campaign by Keystone to instruct watchmakers how to use this case.

I too have one of these. Mine pictured below, has a 987A movement with a Hamilton '139' agn dial that would go in a 'Dodson'. But, it matches pretty well to the edges of the bezel.

Seller's Photo

Seller's Photo

Seller's Photo
It is very interesting to me that apparently so many of these cases were used to re-case Hamilton movements all over the country. (Of course I am drawing the conclusion that all of these watches weren't re-cased in the same shop in the same city.)

Dave, do you know what model's your dials are from? :confused1:

 

[Davemcc]

I think two of mine are 987F. The third was used to safely transport a 986.

I saw another on the swamp the other day with a 986, advertised as a Lawrence. There is a passing resemblance if you squint real hard.

 

[Indyago]

I saw it too. It has a BIN of $249 iirc. Wonder if someone will bite? hmy:

 

[Davemcc]

Dave, do you know what model's your dials are from? :confused1:

I don't think those are even Hamilton dials. I'm not aware of anything that looks like the coral one. The white one isn't AGN. It's more like an embossed gold. I suspect they were supplied with the case as a matched set.

 

[Indyago]

Dave,

You are probably correct. Seems I remember Rene posting a letter to jewelers where Hamilton was upset at the marriage of jobber cases with Hamilton wristwatch movements.

I wonder if your dials might have been from before they asked the jewelers first, not to put movements in third party cases and lastly if they did, say that it was a Hamilton movement on the dial to differentiate the 'frankens' from the real models.

The odd part is they used a legit dial in mine. But, I have seen quite a few very worn Dodson's so, it isn't hard to believe, with everyday wear, a Dodson case might have worn out.