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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Real 6306 & Scubapro450 Dial vs. The Aftermarket!

Hello guys,

I saw a few things while looking around today on a couple popular auction sites that perplexed me. These items were a replacement/aftermarket 6306 diver dial that I've never seen before, and a so-called 6306 Scubapro 450 diver.

I've had some original examples of 6306 divers over the years, and so I wanted to mention a few things here to clear the air about what a real dial looks like on both of these watches; and what the aftermarket/replacement or fake dials look like in comparison. But some may not have caught those topics in the past, so I'll mention a few pointers here:

1. Is the presence of a beveled day/date window which this has.
2. Is the uniformity & silver sheen color of the upper-dial Seiko/Automatic wording font as well as the matching silver color mid-dial 150m font and Suwa symbol. (Also the centered and crisp shape and size of the Suwa symbol)
3. The shape and uniform thickness of the 12 O'clock hr. marker sword and handle thickness.
4. The thickness and uniform cross hatched linen texture of the lumen in the hr. markers, as well as the crisp clean shape and smooth bends or corners of the Markers themselves. Notice the thickness and the length of the staff's extending from the 6/9/12 O'clock markers.
5. The shape and color of the centered Water-Resist text font and the known colors of the font which in mint or new examples was dark crimson or maroon in color, then fades to the other known and commonly seen colors of red, orange, yellow as it ages & fades from exposure to sunlight.
6. The shape & size and wording of the lower dial code font, which reads (Japan 6306) between the 6-7 hr and (-700 L T) between the 6-5 hr marker. This text is always lower in height and rest below the bottom of the 6 O'clock marker cup and never touches it or advances above it. The color of this dial code text also matches for the most part the color and sheen of the silver text elsewhere as previously mentioned on the dial.


First we'll start with the real deal, the Original 6306 diver:
The borrowed pic below shows what a original authentic 6306 example dial looks like. I'm sure many of you know what things to look for on a dial to identify and tell if it's real or not by now with a few pointers mentioned above.




In the borrowed pic below, we have the aftermarket or fake 6306 dial:
It seems to have just been released recently, and the quality of this fake or aftermarket replacement dial speaks for itself, as it's lacking in many areas compared to the much better quality aftermarket 6309 dials that have been out on the market for some time now.

I'll leave it up to you to view and compare the attributes of the aftermarket or fake dials below, it shouldn't be hard to tell this from the real dial above after you discover and look at the same ID points mentioned above for the real dial.

Those points being the day/date window not being beveled, the shabby fill on the text of the wording, the non uniform and rather thick Suwa symbol which is also off-set to the side which rest more under the zero in the 150m font, the over-sized circular and rectangular markers and the thickness and length of the staff's extending from the 6/9/12 O'clock markers, the bold neon yellow lume color, the lower dial code text that is too Long spaced and too large of a font which extends above and touched the lower 6 O'clock marker, and has the incorrect font that says (-704L T)




Onto the rare and elusive Seiko 6306 Scubapro 450:
The Scubapro 450 is a very rare model, and were produced in conjunction with the Scuba-pro dive equipment products company under a marketing contract with Seiko.
Also of interest to note, all Scubapro 450's were only made as 6306-7001 models.

These watches command premium prices when original examples come up for sale :001_tt1:, so hence the profitability of fakes being made and passed off as originals, or the calming mental effect of owning a aftermarket example that looks like the real thing when the real deal isn't available, which as long as the buyer knows it's not original upfront is perfectly fine.

Below are a couple examples of original authentic Seiko 6306 Scubapro 450's, which are identified in the same way as the regular 6306 diver I mentioned above, with the addition of the Scubapro 450 font text to be examined.

The Scubapro 450 text is thick and appears to be the same thickness as the original lumen on the hr. markers, and it's letters and size is uniform and extends from the inner edges of the upper 8 lower inner 9 O'clock hr marker across the dial to the inner top side edge of the 4 O'clock marker. The base black color background of the dial is uniform and exhibits a nice even Matt black color and texture. Notice the matching silver grain paint color of the Suwa symbol and the mid dial 150m text font as well as the upper Seiko automatic font text. Notice where the Suwa symbol resides in relation to the 150m text directly above it and how it's perfectly centered. The lower dial code font on the Scubapro 450 on the bottom right side always reads (-700J T)





Here we have 2 different fake or aftermarket 6306 SP450 dial pics below:
We have a aftermarket or fake dialed example which lacks some of the quality ID points of the original regular 6306 diver, as well as very different looking details compared to the Original Scubapro 450 above.

Of interest to note: the dial below does have a beveled day/date window which tells me that this could be and is more than likely a repaint or redial?

Notice the thin font of the 12 O'clock Sword & handle, notice the sharp pointed corners of the 6,9,12 hour markers. The Suwa symbol is off centered and the silver paint isn't silver at all but looks white in appearance.
The lume appears to have been relumed & has false aged discoloration. The Japan 6306 lower dial code font is too thick and positioned higher than it should be. The Scubapro 450 text is distorted and doesn't have the proper full extension or texture, and also appears to be offset or unlevel and slanted down on the right. (This dial is a fake, and shows itself to be a redial or repaint)




IMO, When a watch is proclaimed to be authentic or original by the seller but it's clearly not after examination, then it's safe to call that watch or dial a fake!

When a watch is claimed by it's seller to have a replacement or new dial, then it also can be called aftermarket. There's nothing wrong with that at all, as long as your aware of it up front when your buying.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, know what your looking at and what your buying ahead of time. If your unsure then come to the forum and ask somebody. We would be glad to assist you in determining the validity of the watch or dial in question to the best of our ability!

Best regards, :thumbup:
Jimmy
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Sumer...Appreciate the reply & interest in the topic Sir

I think the winner of this Original/Aftermarket battle is clear, and hopefully some can see the differences in the 6306 examples to help them see what there looking at when making a decision to purchase what one thinks may be an original 6306 ScubaPro 450.

Thanks for your reply, :thumbup:

Jim





very well illustrated and well explained. Thanks
 

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Great Post, I have been getting more and more into the vintage seiko divers and even thinking about which one I would buy, I had no idea what to look for as far as authenticity or originality, thanks for your informative post! I will now have a better understanding of what I need to keep an eye out for, thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks E.Clark, appreciate the interest and reply Sir

I'm glad the article helped you some with what areas to examine for authenticity sake, and I'm sure you would appreciate one of Seiko's vintage 6306 or 6309 divers.

If I can ever be of assistance with anything, please don't hesitate to PM me or reply to a thread, and I'd be glad to help and give my thoughts. :thumbup1:

Thanks again,
Jim
 

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Hi,

I recently registered.
I'm in France and I like vintage Seiko.
I just sold 2 6105 and 1 6309 Turtle, and I'm looking for a 6306-7001 Scubapro.Your article is very exciting, but I'm frustated because I can't see pictures.:sad:
Have a good day.

Cheers.
 

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Agree can't see pics too :sad:
Hi,

I recently registered.
I'm in France and I like vintage Seiko.
I just sold 2 6105 and 1 6309 Turtle, and I'm looking for a 6306-7001 Scubapro.Your article is very exciting, but I'm frustated because I can't see pictures.:sad:
Have a good day.

Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Sorry guys, my PC photo transfers were messed up when I got my new PC

then the upload to PB didn't correct the problem & the photo's were lost, which in fact broke the links of this older post.

I have now added photo's back to the post above, so please check it out now and give it another read!

Cheers, :thumbup1:
Jim




Agree can't see pics too :sad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks & glad you enjoyed reading the post vinylgreek!

I think there may be a few other post's needing photos attached back to them since I got this new PC.

Thanks & appreciate your reply..

BTW, did you ever get yourself a nice OEM 6309 or 7548 diver?
Maybe someday soon I can help you find a grail you've been looking for!

Cheers, :biggrin:
Jim



Thanks for a post with ongoing relevance Jim, and for correcting the picture issue.
 

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Jim, your a marvel. The info you put out about the Scubapro 450 came just in time, I was about to try to obtain a 6309-7040 with that dial on ebay, so being a newbie I didn't have clue.
Cheers,
Brian.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thanks Brian, I appreciate your thoughts of the post...

Well, the 6309 & the 6306 are twin brothers, but just not exact identicle twins.

The 6306 has a 21 jewel hacking movement, and was a (JDM) or Domestic Japanese marketed watch. Where as the (Export) marketed 6309 is a 17 jewel non hacking movement. (The Japanese always saved the better quality for themselves)

You can mix & match or swap each & every part of these 2 watches between each other. They make many aftermarket dials and hand sets and other parts for these watches that usually are seen in one fashion or another on ebay for sale.

I guess as long as the buyer knows exactly what he wants and what he's buying, that if he wanted a 6309 with a 6306 SP450 aftermarket dial, then that would be fine. This would also hold true of the 6309 itself, if it had aftermarket 6309 dials and other various parts on it, that would be fine if thats what the buyer desires.

As for me, I'm an all original guy and really havent ever had a modded watch or one that contained any aftermarket parts. Not that I dislike these other modded watches, just that I prefer OEM examples.

The great things about the forum and others are, that when a new hobbiest or collector joins and are unsure of a watch which is expected, than they can always ask for advice & help. There will always be some members that will step up & try to help answer your questions and give you honest advice. I enjoy doing this & I'm always willing to help anyone seeking advice.

Cheers & Thanks my friend, :biggrin:
Jim




Jim, your a marvel. The info you put out about the Scubapro 450 came just in time, I was about to try to obtain a 6309-7040 with that dial on ebay, so being a newbie I didn't have clue.
Cheers,
Brian.
 

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Well, the 6309 & the 6306 are twin brothers, but just not exact identicle twins.

The 6306 has a 21 jewel hacking movement, and was a (JDM) or Domestic Japanese marketed watch. Where as the (Export) marketed 6309 is a 17 jewel non hacking movement. (The Japanese always saved the better quality for themselves)

You can mix & match or swap each & every part of these 2 watches between each other. They make many aftermarket dials and hand sets and other parts for these watches that usually are seen in one fashion or another on ebay for sale.

I guess as long as the buyer knows exactly what he wants and what he's buying, that if he wanted a 6309 with a 6306 SP450 aftermarket dial, then that would be fine. This would also hold true of the 6309 itself, if it had aftermarket 6309 dials and other various parts on it, that would be fine if thats what the buyer desires.

As for me, I'm an all original guy and really havent ever had a modded watch or one that contained any aftermarket parts. Not that I dislike these other modded watches, just that I prefer OEM examples.

The great things about the forum and others are, that when a new hobbiest or collector joins and are unsure of a watch which is expected, than they can always ask for advice & help. There will always be some members that will step up & try to help answer your questions and give you honest advice. I enjoy doing this & I'm always willing to help anyone seeking advice.

Cheers & Thanks my friend, :biggrin:
Jim
G'day Again, Trolling through an online classified section in a Melbourne, called Gumtrees, I found a ragedy arsed looking 6309 and yes just like a stray dog I had to take it home. Just another project.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks artefact0...Good luck with your quest of finding one

at a reasonable cost, in decent condition.

The lowest cost I've seen an original well used & aged example sell for was about $700.00 a couple years back, but it's possible to find one cheaper in these difficult financial times were in today if one keeps a sharp eye out & has alittle luck on his side.

I too am looking for a very nice example, and one day I hope to have my very 1st SP450 diver.

Cheers, :biggrin:
Jim


Thanks a lot.
I'll read that quietly.
I absolutely have to find one !!
At a good price, if possible.:biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Congrats Brian on finding a 6309 diver!...

I'm sure with alittle TLC, you can have her looking very nice mate.

I'd offer one of my few up for sale, but the price would seem just a tad high to most people looking, as it's original & very minty condition. I wish I had a few decent but worn pieces, then I surely would make a few new forumers wishes come true.

Cheers & Congrats, :thumbup1:
Jim




G'day Again, Trolling through an online classified section in a Melbourne, called Gumtrees, I found a ragedy arsed looking 6309 and yes just like a stray dog I had to take it home. Just another project.
 

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I'm sure with alittle TLC, you can have her looking very nice mate.

I'd offer one of my few up for sale, but the price would seem just a tad high to most people looking, as it's original & very minty condition. I wish I had a few decent but worn pieces, then I surely would make a few new forumers wishes come true.

Cheers & Congrats, :thumbup1:
Jim
Hey Jim, I see your on the 1000 post mark, got to be a milestone! congrats. I'll pm you about your items. This one I bought is pretty knocked about but for $90 bucks what could I do.
 

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Hey Jim, I see your on the 1000 post mark, got to be a milestone! congrats. I'll pm you about your items. This one I bought is pretty knocked about but for $90 bucks what could I do.

Brian - Where's the Pics?? :biggrin:
Would love to seem some 'before' shots, before you give it the refurb treatment :thumbup1:
 

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Brian - Where's the Pics?? :biggrin:
Would love to seem some 'before' shots, before you give it the refurb treatment :thumbup1:
Hi Muttley, It will take another week before i get it due to where i am (1 mail delivery a week). I still owe shots of the Seagull i bought months ago, but hopefully i can get it all together. I will post shots of it asap so i can get opinions about it's authenticity etc., at the price i got it, i have my doubts. It looks reminiscent of watches advertised out of the Philipines, but what the hell a 68 Mustang is still a Mustang even if its got Taiwanese fenders right?:confused1:.Cheers Brian
 
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