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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys!

I know that we have had discussions about this fellow in the past but he has now turned it into overdrive!!!

He usually sells the bunk WWII watches that are Hamilton, Elgin, Waltham & Bulova but he is now trying to move into the WWI era.

I have no idea how he is doing it but he is now making NEW enamel dials from Elgin's "Star Dial Series". (possibly plastic)

I honestly thought that the set up costs for manufacturing new dials would be to high for anybody to do this and turn a profit.

Metal dials are cheap to have re-finished but ENAMEL ? ? ?

Look at the lip on the on the sub-dial, definitely not a metal dial.

By the way Elgin stopped manufacturing the REAL ONES in 1920 ! !

Elgin never even made the first enamel FAKE white dial below, it is of his own design.

This design was ONLY available in a metal dial!

WW1 Elgin Military Pershing Watch Great Cond White Dial | eBay

WW1 Elgin Military Pershing Watch Great Cond White Dial | eBay

I am only talking about the dials here, cases were always a variable.

Below is the FAKE new white dial.

Look at the shadowing on the 7-8-9 then on the 3-4-5, Elgin NEVER would have let this mistake leave the factory!



Below is a GENUINE white star dial for comparison, this design was ONLY made in metal, not enamel.



Below is a FAKE new black dial.



Below is a GENUINE black star dial for comparison, as you can see on HIS (above) the font is way to thick especially in the crest.

Close but NO CIGAR buddy ! ! !



And the funny thing about all of this is that his FAKES are selling for a higher price than the REAL ONES lately ! ! ! !

Are there really that many uneducated buyers out there ? ? ?

If he were an honest person I would think that he would disclose that these dials are NOT GENUINE ! ! !
 

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Strange thread.
Plastic dials? What is that?
Quote
"By the way Elgin stopped manufacturing the REAL ONES in 1920 ! !"
UNquote
Real what?

My definition of genuine which includes dial hand and lume are from adverts.
I think Radium was used NOT white luminosa
Lets check closely to them

Regards
A
 

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STOP PRESS
I am now monitoring sales of pocket watches and trench watches against subsequent sales
So please pass me a link to this seller too.
I am watching carefully
A
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I don't understand, what you are asking Adam ? ? ?

The dials on his watches are NOT genuine, they are newly manufactured and they have mistakes.

I posted pictures of the genuine ones so you can see the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Will ebay do something if it is reported to them? This is a big deal... Someone will be on this forum Eventually, all excited that they got one of these... I hope not!
G
That's why I gave the forum a "heads up" about these fakes, it's only a matter of time before we have to tell somebody that they got ripped off.
 

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I don't understand, what you are asking Adam ? ? ?

The dials on his watches are NOT genuine, they are newly manufactured and they have mistakes.

I posted pictures of the genuine ones so you can see the difference.
Not asking anything.
Just saying I started to track sales of 'one' watch' to see if it re- born as anything else in a new life. Call it 'Reincarnation'
From what it was to NOT what it is now
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I wonder what would take 3 days to answer a simple question ? ? ? ? ?

Are the dials that you are using genuine or are the fake reproductions ? ? ? ? ?

Hhhmmmmmmm ! ! !
 

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Hey guys!

I know that we have had discussions about this fellow in the past but he has now turned it into overdrive!!!

He usually sells the bunk WWII watches that are Hamilton, Elgin, Waltham & Bulova but he is now trying to move into the WWI era.

I have no idea how he is doing it but he is now making NEW enamel dials from Elgin's "Star Dial Series". (possibly plastic)

I honestly thought that the set up costs for manufacturing new dials would be to high for anybody to do this and turn a profit.

Metal dials are cheap to have re-finished but ENAMEL ? ? ?

Look at the lip on the on the sub-dial, definitely not a metal dial.

By the way Elgin stopped manufacturing the REAL ONES in 1920 ! !

Elgin never even made the first enamel FAKE white dial below, it is of his own design.

This design was ONLY available in a metal dial!

WW1 Elgin Military Pershing Watch Great Cond White Dial | eBay

WW1 Elgin Military Pershing Watch Great Cond White Dial | eBay

I am only talking about the dials here, cases were always a variable.

Below is the FAKE new white dial.

Look at the shadowing on the 7-8-9 then on the 3-4-5, Elgin NEVER would have let this mistake leave the factory!



Below is a GENUINE white star dial for comparison, this design was ONLY made in metal, not enamel.



Below is a FAKE new black dial.



Below is a GENUINE black star dial for comparison, as you can see on HIS (above) the font is way to thick especially in the crest.

Close but NO CIGAR buddy ! ! !



And the funny thing about all of this is that his FAKES are selling for a higher price than the REAL ONES lately ! ! ! !

Are there really that many uneducated buyers out there ? ? ?

If he were an honest person I would think that he would disclose that these dials are NOT GENUINE ! ! !
Stan
How can you tell this sellers dials are enamel and not metal
sorry I cannot see it
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Adam,

Look at the lip on the second hand sub-dial (white dials), the lip looks way too deep for a metal dial.

Metal dial sub-dials are not this deep usually.

Compare the two again and you'll probably see what I am pointing out.
 

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Adam,

Look at the lip on the second hand sub-dial (white dials), the lip looks way too deep for a metal dial.

Metal dial sub-dials are not this deep usually.

Compare the two again and you'll probably see what I am pointing out.
Stan
Thanks your reply.
Yes I absolutely agree your points/evidence. I can not dispute it at all. They do not look enamel sunken - yet its possible they are
So that said
I will try to buy one of these watches as I can NOT believe ANYONE can make enamel dials

Regards and will keep you posted
Best
A
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here are a few tests to run on the dial to see if it is a genuine antique:

Ultraviolet test against a genuine white enamel Elgin dial at the same time to see color variations.

Weight: should be between 1.8 grams and 2.0 grams (dial alone)

Dial foot spacing should be EXACT.

The back of a genuine Elgin dial from this period should be orange with black and some red spotting.

The back of some RED 12's are an exception to this rule though. (they can be white, orange & black)

Ultrasonic: put it in an ultrasonic cleaning machine to see what happens to the numerals/figures. Do they stay or do they disappear?

Take a razor blade and see if the numerals/figures come right off, on a genuine dial they will NOT come off as they are fired into the dial.

If it turns out to be a metal dial you will be able to see in about 2 seconds!

Fakes are getting pretty good these days.

I have even heard of counterfeiters taking a genuine dial and having a few thousandths of the top of the dial face completely removed then you will have a blank enamel dial which you can re-task to any design using common re-finishing methods.

The weight test will probably spot this counterfeiting method though!

Looks like we might have a FORUM SCIENCE PROJECT ! ! ! !
 
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