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which do you like better or think is more accurate the sw200 or 2824.
Sw200 vs. ETA 2824
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I have an Eta powered Invicta but not one with an SW200 movement, so I can't vote in your poll. If I put the Eta up against the Miyota automatic movement, however, hands down it would be the Eta. Far better power reserve and much smoother sweep of the seconds hand.
I've owned both and thus far the 2824's have been more accurate but this may be due to the fact that even the lowest grade is regulated to 2 positions whereas I'm not sure the SW200 has any regulation, but I may be wrong on this.
So, I'll vote 2824 but I love them both!
So, I'll vote 2824 but I love them both!
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All the eta's and sw200's I own, or have owned spend time on the microset timer and are regulated to cosc or as close as I can get them....
Both are good time keepers, especially the higher grade versions.
Invicta uses the lower grade movements, which are still quite good.
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i owned 3 invictas with the sw200, 2 of these were defective, so i sold the good one, a month later my friend told me that the watch have stopped!
so based on my own experience the sw200 on invictas arent confiable, yet they keep good time. thats why i preffer miyota powered invictas.
about the ETA 2824, my Tag Aquaracer holds a Tag Calibre 5 [ETA 2824 based] and is extremely accurate, and my tissot prs250 also holds a 2824 and its very accurate too, my steinhart also use the 2824 and is very very accurate.
so i preffer ETA for swiss made watches, and for invicta, miyota is my choice.
so based on my own experience the sw200 on invictas arent confiable, yet they keep good time. thats why i preffer miyota powered invictas.
about the ETA 2824, my Tag Aquaracer holds a Tag Calibre 5 [ETA 2824 based] and is extremely accurate, and my tissot prs250 also holds a 2824 and its very accurate too, my steinhart also use the 2824 and is very very accurate.
so i preffer ETA for swiss made watches, and for invicta, miyota is my choice.
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I only have one sw200, and I have to say I have been nothing but pleased with this movement. I have to say for me it holds up well to the ETA.
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I agree, my SW200 movements are very accurate and I have not had any issues at all.
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I have the sw200 in my 9937 that settled down to +10secs. a day. I don't have an ETA 2824 but I do have an ETA 2836-2 in my Bernhardt Instrument Globemaster that runs about +15 secs. a day, I like them both but my ETA movement runs smoother(sweeping second hand) vs. the sw200 sometimes stutters.
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I'll take the SW200 please. As an early adopter of using Selita movements in quantity, Invicta had a few growing pains with them initially, but I think they have been ironed out. My COSC Reserve Pro Diver runs @ an average of -1 seconds per day. Plus I'd rather my money go toward supporting a company other than Swatch.
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Due to the well known hoarding of ETA movements by Swatch, the SW line has become extremely popular with many mid to high end manufacturers. You can find the movements in Chase Durer, Croton, Android and of course the "Big Cheese", just to name few.
According to what I have read, if you own ANY skeletonized ETA movements, you already own a Seletta, who re manufactured the caliber.
I own ETA 2800 series movements and SW's; they appear to be about comparable in all areas of accuracy and quality. Only time will tell, but with the huge void in the industry created by ETA-Valjoux you can expect an increase in alternative movements. Of course, ETA will hold the name-recognition edge for a while, regardless.
Hard truth is that with a little R&D, Japan could easily produce mechanical or auto-mechanical movements on par with almost any mid-priced Swiss movements (minus the Swiss mystique of course). Rather, Japan is moving in its typical direction of high-tech (as in Seiko Spring-Drive) and may not be interested in moving above the Miyota level of traditional balance assembly calibers. There are those far more horologically knowledgeable than I that feel that China could be the next big source of extremely fine mechanical movements.
The big question is what will fill the void left by the 7750 and 7751 calibers? For those of us who LOVE auto/mechanical chronographs with lots of complications, this is another issue entirely.
NAYTH
According to what I have read, if you own ANY skeletonized ETA movements, you already own a Seletta, who re manufactured the caliber.
I own ETA 2800 series movements and SW's; they appear to be about comparable in all areas of accuracy and quality. Only time will tell, but with the huge void in the industry created by ETA-Valjoux you can expect an increase in alternative movements. Of course, ETA will hold the name-recognition edge for a while, regardless.
Hard truth is that with a little R&D, Japan could easily produce mechanical or auto-mechanical movements on par with almost any mid-priced Swiss movements (minus the Swiss mystique of course). Rather, Japan is moving in its typical direction of high-tech (as in Seiko Spring-Drive) and may not be interested in moving above the Miyota level of traditional balance assembly calibers. There are those far more horologically knowledgeable than I that feel that China could be the next big source of extremely fine mechanical movements.
The big question is what will fill the void left by the 7750 and 7751 calibers? For those of us who LOVE auto/mechanical chronographs with lots of complications, this is another issue entirely.
NAYTH
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Good post Nayth
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Actually Seiko already has excellent automatic movements which are on a par with swiss movements. They only appear in thair "Japan Only " watches.
I have 2 Seikos with the economical 6R15 movement which,unlike the popular 7S26/36 powered Seiko dive watches available in thae US, hack and can be hand wound. Both are quite accurate and aren't too far removed from Sellita or the 2824.
The Seiko 9S55 and 9S56 (GMT) are accuracy rated within COSC specs,as is the manual winding 9S54. These are used in the Grand Seikos
The Power reserve is 50 hours on the autos.
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Invicta's implementation of the Seleta movement has been spotty. I have had several issues with them as well. The ones that run, run well. I can't say if this is Invicta's problem, or a problem with the movements themselves. I won't sell any of my Invicta's with the SW200 because I don't want to 'stick' anyone with a bum watch. One of mine had the date wheel advance only half way, this after many weeks of running fine. Several have had crown issues, including the crown/stem pulling right out of the watch.
I have seen the SW200 in other brands of watches, and it seems to work identicaly to the 2824, so I don't know where the wrench is.....
If we were talking air planes here, I would be flying Air ETA.
(actually, probably Air Seiko)
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Now that you're speaking about the SW200 issues...
...I have a 9937 with a SW200 movement and it came defective from the factory, it had an issue with the crown/stem (couldn't manual wind it). As I purchased the watch from overseas -South America- and had to wait almost a month to get it delivered, and knowing as well many stories of users waiting for several months till Invicta repairs their watches, I preferred to avoid the warranty and sent my watch to a non-authorized local watchmaker in my town. He repaired the watch (he'd never seen a SW200 movement and thought it was an ETA until I said so) and now it runs fine at -4 sec/day, which as far as I know is within the COSC parameters, the date changes with a 'click' sound at 11:55 and the second hand sweeps smoothly and you have to get REALLY close to the watch to actually see the micro-stops of that hand (I think it beats 8 or 9 times per second).
All in all, I love this watch, I know it didn't come perfect but I could fix it even though taking the risk of avoiding the warranty. It has the Submariner look, the closest look to the original -in my opinion- if compared with other brands like MarcelloC and Steinhart, it's sturdy, well done and keeps excellent time.
Here you can watch some recent pics of my 9937: http://sebastiantorres.blogspot.com/2008/02/invicta-9937-pro-diver-outdoor-session.html
And here you'll find the first pics I took of this watch while unboxing it, the same day it arrived to me: http://sebastiantorres.blogspot.com/2007/07/invicta-pro-diver-9937-segunda-parte.html
Sebastian Torres
...I have a 9937 with a SW200 movement and it came defective from the factory, it had an issue with the crown/stem (couldn't manual wind it). As I purchased the watch from overseas -South America- and had to wait almost a month to get it delivered, and knowing as well many stories of users waiting for several months till Invicta repairs their watches, I preferred to avoid the warranty and sent my watch to a non-authorized local watchmaker in my town. He repaired the watch (he'd never seen a SW200 movement and thought it was an ETA until I said so) and now it runs fine at -4 sec/day, which as far as I know is within the COSC parameters, the date changes with a 'click' sound at 11:55 and the second hand sweeps smoothly and you have to get REALLY close to the watch to actually see the micro-stops of that hand (I think it beats 8 or 9 times per second).
All in all, I love this watch, I know it didn't come perfect but I could fix it even though taking the risk of avoiding the warranty. It has the Submariner look, the closest look to the original -in my opinion- if compared with other brands like MarcelloC and Steinhart, it's sturdy, well done and keeps excellent time.
Here you can watch some recent pics of my 9937: http://sebastiantorres.blogspot.com/2008/02/invicta-9937-pro-diver-outdoor-session.html
And here you'll find the first pics I took of this watch while unboxing it, the same day it arrived to me: http://sebastiantorres.blogspot.com/2007/07/invicta-pro-diver-9937-segunda-parte.html
Sebastian Torres
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To compare the Sellita SW200 with the ETA2824 is a bit more complicated than you guys realize. Just like the ETA2824, the Sellita SW200 comes in many different grades. It is the lower grade that Invicta used that had a problem for a while. I recently spoke to Thomas Ickler, owner of Limes Watch Company. Several of Limes models come with either the next to the highest grade of ETA2824, or one of the highest grades of SW200; unfortunately, the customer can not even pick the movement. It all depends on the availability of the quickly becoming more scarce ETA2824.
Further more, Mr. Ickler told me that even the ETA2824 movements they use when available, are assembled by Sellita in a small plant in Germany using ETA supplied parts. This is to help keep up with demand. In Mr. Ickler's opinion, these Sellita made ETA2824's may even be of better quality than those made by ETA, simply because the Sellita plant in Germany is smaller and operates on a smaller scale. In his recent experience, he has not observed any difference in accuracy or reliability between the ETA2824 or SW200 of the high grades he is using.
Further more, Mr. Ickler told me that even the ETA2824 movements they use when available, are assembled by Sellita in a small plant in Germany using ETA supplied parts. This is to help keep up with demand. In Mr. Ickler's opinion, these Sellita made ETA2824's may even be of better quality than those made by ETA, simply because the Sellita plant in Germany is smaller and operates on a smaller scale. In his recent experience, he has not observed any difference in accuracy or reliability between the ETA2824 or SW200 of the high grades he is using.
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Knight,
Thank you very much for the information. Several of us around here have asked before about whether or not the SW200 came in different grades. Just what I expected, the movements are basically identical in quality and reliability.
Since I bought a Sapphire Ghost recently, I've been lurking around on other forums for others who also picked up on this deal. One or two had problems with the ETA movement. I found it interesting that they blamed Invicta for spotty QC. In their minds, it couldn't have been ETA that manufactured a dud movement. Mind you, these are Invicta supporters (or at least they were before they bought a faulty watch). Conversely, when Invicta had problems with some of their early SW200s, it was a combination of Invicta's poor qc and an inferior movement in the Selita. Unfortunately people have been conditioned to believe that Invicta's qc is bad, that their customer service is poor, and that the sw200 is an inferior movement. So when an Invicta customer gets a bad watch, people are ready and willing to fuel the fires of negativity. Unfortunately, Invicta doesn't have the brand status to counter a few bad customer experiences.
This is a digression, but one I think is appropriate. I love the fact that this is one of the few subforums where quality, brand value, and designs can be debated, sometimes hotly. Go on Hamilton, go on Omega, go on Rolex forums, and you get very little of this. I know that many of you have other brands that you follow, but you have to admit that if you want to debate the merits of the ETA vs. Selita or simply crack on the brand or CEO, you come to this forum. If you want a group hug, you go to one of the Swiss "prestige" brand forums.
Thank you very much for the information. Several of us around here have asked before about whether or not the SW200 came in different grades. Just what I expected, the movements are basically identical in quality and reliability.
Since I bought a Sapphire Ghost recently, I've been lurking around on other forums for others who also picked up on this deal. One or two had problems with the ETA movement. I found it interesting that they blamed Invicta for spotty QC. In their minds, it couldn't have been ETA that manufactured a dud movement. Mind you, these are Invicta supporters (or at least they were before they bought a faulty watch). Conversely, when Invicta had problems with some of their early SW200s, it was a combination of Invicta's poor qc and an inferior movement in the Selita. Unfortunately people have been conditioned to believe that Invicta's qc is bad, that their customer service is poor, and that the sw200 is an inferior movement. So when an Invicta customer gets a bad watch, people are ready and willing to fuel the fires of negativity. Unfortunately, Invicta doesn't have the brand status to counter a few bad customer experiences.
This is a digression, but one I think is appropriate. I love the fact that this is one of the few subforums where quality, brand value, and designs can be debated, sometimes hotly. Go on Hamilton, go on Omega, go on Rolex forums, and you get very little of this. I know that many of you have other brands that you follow, but you have to admit that if you want to debate the merits of the ETA vs. Selita or simply crack on the brand or CEO, you come to this forum. If you want a group hug, you go to one of the Swiss "prestige" brand forums.
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