[georgehale]

Hi, I'm Marco from Italy and I'm new to this forum.:001_smile:
I'm looking for some news about my Mother's Female Vintage Omega from last '60s or early '70s. (see attached pics)
It was originally steel made (with its bracelet marked Omega and others) but Dad in last '70s brought it in Jewellery and made some changes to it. (why not to buy a gold-new one? It cost less I think).
Anyway...
Now it have 18K yellow gold case with a number "308369" stamped on back
White-gold (or white-al?) dial with date and "OMEGA" "Automatic" on it
18K Bracelet (not original).
Plastic glass rounded.
I think it's similar to this one Omega oro only with date but I can't find it on Omega's Vintage Collection on OMEGA Watches: Vintage Watches.
Can someone help me to identify this watch?
Thanks a lot
Marco

 

[georgehale]

other details

Here some pics of N° of movement.. it seems 631 or 681 but no model with 681 looks like mine.. and 631 doesn't exist at all!
Mistery goes on....

 

[Wetworks]

Hi Marco,

Unfortunately I am stumped as well. The first thing I thought of when I saw this watch as that it may be some form of Ladies Cosmic, but the rear-loading movement kind of ruled that out. The case looks amazingly similar to the "C" cased Men's Constellations. The dial looks to have been poorly refinished, but beyond that I have nothing. Sorry.

 

[georgehale]

It was a bad habit

Hi Marco,

Unfortunately I am stumped as well. The first thing I thought of when I saw this watch as that it may be some form of Ladies Cosmic, but the rear-loading movement kind of ruled that out. The case looks amazingly similar to the "C" cased Men's Constellations. The dial looks to have been poorly refinished, but beyond that I have nothing. Sorry.

Infact I think it is a Frankenstein-watch... during '60s and '70s people often used to build their watches simply buying a regular movement (Omega, Zenith, Citizen,etc.) using what they called "cassa nazionale" (National Case) and bracelets built by a jeweller for example with yellow gold. In this case the original steel-watch Omega (who know whatever was) was disassembled and movement was used for this. Surely the case was copied from some really existing model.
Can you give a price to this freak-watch? :biggrin:

 

[ulackfocus]

Give us a clean & clear shot of the inside of the caseback so we can read the markings. I'll look it up in the Omega book tonight.

 

[georgehale]

Give us a clean & clear shot of the inside of the caseback so we can read the markings. I'll look it up in the Omega book tonight.

Caseback was changed as case was.. there's only the mark 750°° Gold 18K but no brand or other, maybe it's handmade by jeweller..
We'll have to wait for sharpen pics of watch.. I've just buyed on Ebay some Macro Close-up lenses ø67mm for my Nikkor 18-70mm and a ø52mm for my Nikkor 50mm f=4.... when I'll have them I'll post new pics (in 6-7 days I hope)
Thanks a lot

 

[ulackfocus]

You are correct that it probably was once a stainless steel watch which a watchmaker or jeweler took the dial & movement out of and installed into an aftermarket case. This frequently happened in South America. I can use a couple Longines watches as an example.

This is what the markings inside an original 18K Swiss made case look like:

Here's a South American made case - just as you describe with only an 18K marking:

I'm skeptical of that movement too, but will reserve judgement until I can check my reference material. As it is you should know that the watch will have little value to a collector. If the movement isn't authentic that's even worse but let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[georgehale]

I'm skeptical of that movement too, but will reserve judgement until I can check my reference material. As it is you should know that the watch will have little value to a collector. If the movement isn't authentic that's even worse but let's keep our fingers crossed.

Someone on Watchuseek forum told me that 631 movement is the 630-date not registered on Omega's Vintage database (sometimes happened.. there was a lot of watches with the same name but different looks)

Anyway if it's a 630/631 it was in
BA 531.0001 - Other - 18K solid yellow gold 1962
ST 135.0001 De Ville Stainless steel 1967
ST 535.0001 Seamaster Stainless steel 1963
ST 535.0004 Seamaster De Ville Stainless steel 1964
ST 535.0007 Seamaster 120 Stainless steel 1966
ST 535.0027 Genève Stainless steel 1971

and if it was 680/681 it was only in
MD 566.0021 Genève Gold-plated 1969

with 681 movement results are
BA 562.0005 Genève 18K solid yellow gold 1965
BA 768.0803 Constellation 18K solid yellow gold 1970
CD 566.0015 Genève Dynamic I Gold-cap on stainless steel 1968 - 1977
JD 566.0011 Ladymatic Gold-plated 1965
MD 566.0002 Ladymatic Gold-plated 1966
MD 566.0012 Genève Gold-plated 1968
MD 566.0021 Genève Gold-plated 1969
PA 566.0039 Seamaster Gold-plated 1971
ST 566.0001 Ladymatic Stainless steel 1965
ST 566.0007 Seamaster 120 Stainless steel 1966

while with 681/684 movement results are
PA 566.0039 Seamaster Gold-plated 1971
ST 566.0018 Seamaster Cosmic Stainless steel 1970
ST 566.0032 Seamaster Stainless steel 1970
ST 566.0036 Genève Stainless steel 1970
ST 566.0045 Genève Stainless steel 1972

there's a great choice in the same range of time

 

[ulackfocus]

Okay, found some info. A 63x would be a manual wind movement so that's out because yours has a self-winding rotor. It's a 681 which is a lady's automatic since it's much smaller than the men's automatics.

 

[georgehale]

well done

:001_smile:

Okay, found some info. A 63x would be a manual wind movement so that's out because yours has a self-winding rotor. It's a 681 which is a lady's automatic since it's much smaller than the men's automatics.

Maybe, Probably yes... so 681 was bad printed (it looks like 631)
and I've founded some info me too on
http://omega-constellation-collectors.blogspot.com/2007/04/magic-movements.html
anyway 631 or 681 I have to repair it.. it doesn't work anymore and it need some care from a good mechanic. :crying:
what a mess!

 

[himmelblau]

Your movement cannot be a 681, as it only has two jewels on the part that is marked 631. A 681 movement has three jewels on this part of the movement.

Also, I have concerns regarding the serial number on the movement. The serial number on Omega movements are much clearer than that shown on your movement and does not have holes apparently drilled through part of the serial number, and the number shown on yours appears to start with an 8 which is wrong for the year the movements were made.

Brian

 

[ulackfocus]

Brian, I have doubts about the movement's authenticity too. Maybe it's the photo, but that doesn't look as clean & precise as Omega's work usually is.

 

[georgehale]

****! :-(

:scared:

Brian, I have doubts about the movement's authenticity too. Maybe it's the photo, but that doesn't look as clean & precise as Omega's work usually is.

mhhh it seems worst than I thought.. so neither I have an original case and bracelet nor an original movement. Did Jewellery change it too in early '80s with another one? :-(
Mistery grows up!
Anyway none could tell me what happened...
My parents both died and Jewellery who made this job did the same some years ago.. I'll bring it to repair to an Official Omega Dealer.. Only them can solve this mistery when they'll repair it

but... :crying:
So... now it's clear, that's the fact: Jewellery (God bless his soul) many years ago took back from Dad the "two-years-old" original Omega (whatever was) without paying back it and replaced it in a 18K yellow case and bracelet with a non original movement. I don't know how much did it cost (I think a lot of money anyway) but it was a robbery :cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:

 

[georgehale]

Last news

Last news from Old Franken-Omega: Movement is broken and incomplete... I'll have to replace it.. 150-200 euros for repairing a 400 euros watch value, nothing more nothing less :crying:

 

[gatorcpa]

Dunno what to make of this one. :confused1:

Based on the pictures from the beginning of the post and this link from Ranfft, it certainly looks like a cal. 681.

Ranfft Omega cal. 681

Case is probably not Omega, but I think the movement is OK.

Take care,
gatorcpa

 

[georgehale]

I think so

Dunno what to make of this one. :confused1:

Based on the pictures from the beginning of the post and this link from Ranfft, it certainly looks like a cal. 681.

Ranfft Omega cal. 681

Case is probably not Omega, but I think the movement is OK.

Take care,
gatorcpa

Yeah I think so too it's very similar.. but technician told me that movement is seriously damaged and it's very hard to repair it.. it will cost too much :crying:
anyway I've founded this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en#ht_500wt_1156
a seamaster ladies 681 movement.. even dial and hands fit with mine! I've founded it!!!!! Thanks gatorcpa!!!
Case and bracelet was changed but caliber was right!
I'll ask the seller if he can ship to Italy to replace the movement of mine franken-omega

Another information founded on http://cgi.ebay.com/60S-OMEGA-GENEV...Watches_GL&hash=item2c58337860#ht_7479wt_1141
It has 681 caliber and even case is really similar and so the dial and hands.
So we can say that mine is a Geneve Cal:861 modified in case and bracelet

 

[gatorcpa]

Good luck with the eBay auction. Dial is the same, so there should be no problem fitting it into the case.

Take care,
gatorcpa

 

[georgehale]

Good luck with the eBay auction. Dial is the same, so there should be no problem fitting it into the case.

Take care,
gatorcpa

Thanks a lot
Now I have a hi-res pic of movement thanks to close-up lens 10+ on a 18-70mm nikkor better than iPhone lenses:blush:
.. here's the evidence is a 681 caliber: