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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys !

I finished up with a bunch of Elgin Trench Watches plus many more in the past couple of weeks.

Though that I'd share some results.


1907 Elgin Transition, Sterling Silver Illinois case, STERLING FACTORY CROWN, size 0s, 17 jewels, rare grade 263 with a SOLID GOLD TRAIN and 17 jewels.






1907 Elgin Transition Trench Watch, 10k DOUBLE STOCK Illinois "GIANT" case with a hinged case back, size 0s, 15 jewels, "USA" stamped enamel dial.






1917 Elgin Trench Watch, solid nickel Illinois case, size 3/0s, 7 jewel gilted movement, enamel 24 hour dial.






1914 Elgin Transition Trench Watch, Sterling Silver Illinois case, size 3/0s, 15 jewels, BOLD Roman numeral RED XII dial with a "Made in USA" stamp.






1917 Elgin Trench Watch, GIANT sie 6s, 38mm Philadelphia case, factory crown, 7 jewels, grade 286, re-lumed dial and hands.








1901 Waltham Transition Wrist Watch, 10k gold plated Keystone watch case, factory crown, size 0s, 15 jewel Seaside grade movement with a solid gold center wheel, Roman dial.






1929 Elgin Pershing, Keystone Silveroid case, size 3/0s, 7 jewels, enamel black star dial with re-lumed skeleton hands.



 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks ! ! !

I really LOVE that grade 263 with the 17 jewels and the solid gold train ! ! ! ! (the first watch)

If I am not mistaken 1907 was the very last year that Elgin had a solid gold train in that movement with solid gold jewel chatons.

In 1908 grade 263 only had a solid gold center wheel and in 1909 or 1910 grade 263 had a basic brass train with no bells and whistles.

I think the last year for grade 263 was 1911, after that the best size 0s movement that Elgin manufactured was the grade 354 with 15 jewels.

Elgin completely stopped production of size 0s in 1916 (Waltham 1918).
 

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Cool Stan
But we agree, movements may be 1901 - 1907
BUT
No American manufacturers mens wristwatch we know of prior to 1916.
These are (as you know) pocket watch movements mounted in the manufacturer in wristwatch cases from about 1917/18/19

Just to clarify for others.

Kind Regards
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I would have to disagree about the 1916 date you listed though, I have a couple of ads that pre-date 1916.

One from 1915, an Elgin men's wrist watch ad that I found in the October 1915 edition of "Outdoor" magazine.

And there is also ad Elgin ad from 1914 on page 93 of Ehrhardt's book that shows an Elgin men's wrist watch.

I have also seen an ad dated from 1914 in the archives of the Elgin Historical Society Museum showing an Elgin man's wrist watch.



The above listed watches have movements that clearly pre-date the cases that's why they are listed as "transition" time pieces.
 

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I would have to disagree about the 1916 date you listed though, I have a couple of ads that pre-date 1916.

One from 1915, an Elgin men's wrist watch ad that I found in the October 1915 edition of "Outdoor" magazine.

And there is also ad Elgin ad from 1914 on page 93 of Ehrhardt's book that shows an Elgin men's wrist watch.

I have also seen an ad dated from 1914 in the archives of the Elgin Historical Society Museum showing an Elgin man's wrist watch.



The above listed watches have movements that clearly pre-date the cases that's why they are listed as "transition" time pieces.
Well you may be right, but surely not 1901 or 1907, so we agree to that.

I 'personally' have never seen an actual mans American watch prior to 1916, indeed I am not sure I have seen an advert for a mans watch prior to 1916. Maybe October 1915 does exist, but that is as close to 1916 as I feel any first mens watches were seen
In addition to that, the advert of October 15 does not mean they actually sold any pieces.

So my personal feeling, ladies watches (American) started 1913 and men's 1916, but maybe men's did start in 1915. I just bought a 1917 American mans watch, I was pretty impressed to find that.
Really my main point is that they were surely not about in 1901/7 or even 1913!

Best
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know for a fact that the United States Army had a spec sheet for wrist watches, it was General Specification No. 579-D dated October 24, 1916. I have a copy of it.

They also had an EARLIER General Specification for wrist watches dated November 3, 1914.

The October 24, 1916 is just a revision of the earlier November 3, 1914. The 1916 revision was updated with luminous hands and numerals.

I know for a fact that the November 3, 1914 version does in fact exist but I have not ever been able to find it.

I know that it exists because it is referred to by name in the 1916 revision.

It DOES state in the 1916 document that the movement is required to be of American manufacturing.

I have pretty much exhausted all resources trying to find the 1914 document.

I truly wish that this document could be found, a lot of our questions about things could finally be put to rest.

The search goes on..................................................
 
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