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Discussion Starter #1
I've noticed, as of late, how Rolex is starting to update some models of their sports watches. The yacht-master for one, used to be nothing more than a Sub w/a one piece metal bezel. Now it's a completely different watch, for better or worse.
The GMT is now a true Sub w/an extra hand, fatter case plus a new clasp. Good show! Before it was a slimmer Sub w/an extra hand. Go figure.
Wait, wasn't the Explorer a GMT with a one piece metal bezel? Or was it the other way around? I really hope they continue to update.
BTW, Omega has a whole bunch of different Seamaster variants but they are all still Seamasters. What gives?
Just kidding
Mike
 

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I've noticed, as of late, how Rolex is starting to update some models of their sports watches. The yacht-master for one, used to be nothing more than a Sub w/a one piece metal bezel. Now it's a completely different watch, for better or worse.
The GMT is now a true Sub w/an extra hand, fatter case plus a new clasp. Good show! Before it was a slimmer Sub w/an extra hand. Go figure.
Wait, wasn't the Explorer a GMT with a one piece metal bezel? Or was it the other way around? I really hope they continue to update.
BTW, Omega has a whole bunch of different Seamaster variants but they are all still Seamasters. What gives?
Just kidding
Mike
Before dismissing the Yacht-Master as a just a Submariner variant as you have, you might wish to read this article of mine and get better educated:

http://rolexreferencepage.com/8.html

BTW, Omega has discontinued several of their Seamaster variants.
 

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1st step: they look all the same.
2nd step: you notice small differences and details.
3rd step: you begin to acculturate, as JHBII said.
4th step: you want every single model in the Rolex lineup because at this point you (made yourself) believe that everyone of them could be useful in your life (one for traveling, one for diving, one timing, one for yacthing).
But most of the time you will just stare at them...
 

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1st step: they look all the same.
2nd step: you notice small differences and details.
3rd step: you begin to acculturate, as JHBII said.
4th step: you want every single model in the Rolex lineup because at this point you (made yourself) believe that everyone of them could be useful in your life (one for traveling, one for diving, one timing, one for yacthing).
But most of the time you will just stare at them...
That's pretty much it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Before dismissing the Yacht-Master as a just a Submariner variant as you have, you might wish to read this article of mine and get better educated:
John,
I share your passion for Rolex watches and I'm a proponent of their products but sometimes I'm a critic.
I've read all of your articles and I credit you for most of my schooling as far as Rolex goes. I also appreciate your loyalty to the brand and your sizable collection but the subtle differences between a Sub/SD and Yacht-Master do not make for a watch that is unique in it's own right. I guess it all comes down to a point of view. So, I get your point even if I don't agree.
Mike
 

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John,
I share your passion for Rolex watches and I'm a proponent of their products but sometimes I'm a critic.
I've read all of your articles and I credit you for most of my schooling as far as Rolex goes. I also appreciate your loyalty to the brand and your sizable collection but the subtle differences between a Sub/SD and Yacht-Master do not make for a watch that is unique in it's own right. I guess it all comes down to a point of view. So, I get your point even if I don't agree.
Mike
Mike, I think more than a few people were suspect of the DNA behind the YM. My feeling is that is why Rolex really went the extra mile and made the YM-II.
 

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Guys - I can appreciate what you're saying here, but there are truly very few actual similarities between the Sub and the Yacht-Master.

1. They use the same movement
2. They are both three handed watches.
3. They use the same Triplock crown.
4. Same diameter

Differences?

1. Difference bezel
2. Different case and lugs
3. Hands/Markers different (Maxi dial on YM)
4. Dial color/material is different
5. Different clasp
6. Both have Oyster bracelets, but the YM has the polished center link which are solid, not hollow like on the Sub.
7. Different water resistance - designed for different applications.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but unless you're going to be one of those folks that say a Tag, Omega, and a Rolex are all basically the same watch, I think it's clear to see the strong, clear distinction between the YM and Sub.
 

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And the YM also comes in 3 different sizes, which makes it good for ladies.

About solid center links: my sister has a TT YM in 29mm version (bought in 1999) and it doesn't have them. Are they just for the bigger version or where they introduced in recent years?
 

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And the YM also comes in 3 different sizes, which makes it good for ladies.

About solid center links: my sister has a TT YM in 29mm version (bought in 1999) and it doesn't have them. Are they just for the bigger version or where they introduced in recent years?
Darn good question. My guess is the smaller sizes which use an altogether different bracelet don't have the solid centers.
 

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Interesting thread...

As far as the YM & YM II go (IMO), they are apples & oranges.. Certainly not just a 'upgrade" of the YM.

To me, the only think the YM has to do with boating is it can be splashed. It's NOT a Yachting watch. A true yachting watch is designed for yachting, something the YM II is designed for and for that purpose designed extremely well. Some may not like it, but it is a 'tool' watch (Ok, let's not start that discussion here too). And I do believe the 2 share almost nothing in common, save maybe the same gold is used in the 2...

I think (again JMO) the original Yachtmaster was made to make a slightly more 'elegant' sub. Something that was sporty, yet a bit more dressed up than a sub, without being all dressed up. That can probably explain the more curved case & gold or platinum bezel instead of the aluminum. Maybe more to appeal to the stereotypical person you'll think of that goes 'yachting' not necessarily the ones that actually yachts. I can tell you, the dress-sport look of the YM is exactly what drew me to it over the TT sub.... :drool: Though admittedly it was a very hard decision..

Anyways... Again, JMO - right or wrong... :thumbup1:
 

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1st step: they look all the same.
2nd step: you notice small differences and details.
3rd step: you begin to acculturate, as JHBII said.
4th step: you want every single model in the Rolex lineup because at this point you (made yourself) believe that everyone of them could be useful in your life (one for traveling, one for diving, one timing, one for yacthing).
But most of the time you will just stare at them...
X2 :thumbup1:
 

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I completely forgot that the YM came in a couple different sizes. I concede that it is indeed its own distinct watch.
 

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29mm, 35 mm and 40mm. But as far as I see the smaller versions are pretty rare.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Differences?

1. Difference bezel
2. Different case and lugs
3. Hands/Markers different (Maxi dial on YM)
4. Dial color/material is different
5. Different clasp
6. Both have Oyster bracelets, but the YM has the polished center link which are solid, not hollow like on the Sub.
7. Different water resistance - designed for different applications.
1. Difference bezel--why platinum? to reinforce the pompous/elite status of yacthing? Use unobtanium instead.
2. Different case and lugs--not different enough. A variant.
3. Hands/Markers different (Maxi dial on YM)--yacthing dude needs more night visibility than a diving dude?
4. Dial color/material is different--oooh, feel the texture!
5. Different clasp--ok
6. Both have Oyster bracelets, but the YM has the polished center link which are solid, not hollow like on the Sub.--c'mon, you could have left this one out.
7. Different water resistance - designed for different applications.--yacthing dude could just as well be served w/any water resistant watch. Being splashed w/salty water. God forbid he/she falls in to the salty water.
Lets face it, the YM is a glorified Submariner except it has a completely useless piece of platinum for a bezel.

Anyway, lets gets back on how much a GMT & Explorer are different from each other. Sort of like a 1981 Cadillac Eldorado is different from an Oldsmobile Riviera, of the same vintage.
 

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Interesting thread...

As far as the YM & YM II go (IMO), they are apples & oranges.. Certainly not just a 'upgrade" of the YM.

To me, the only think the YM has to do with boating is it can be splashed. It's NOT a Yachting watch. A true yachting watch is designed for yachting, something the YM II is designed for and for that purpose designed extremely well. Some may not like it, but it is a 'tool' watch (Ok, let's not start that discussion here too). And I do believe the 2 share almost nothing in common, save maybe the same gold is used in the 2... " Quote SCOTT"
_________________________________________________________________________________


I agree. The YM and the YM II are not even remotely in the same league.
It should better be an entire new model because of the 300 % price increase.Yikes!
 

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I agree. The YM and the YM II are not even remotely in the same league.
It should better be an entire new model because of the 300 % price increase.Yikes!

Well, it's not quite 300%.. Remember, the YM II is currently only available in 18K white or yellow gold. No stailess steel or two-toned option.... So it's only a 45% increase... :wink: :biggrin: (The 18K YM is about $23K).

It will be curious to see 1) if they bring out a TT model this year (I'd bet they will going off history) and 2) how much it'll be.. I'll guess $11,900....
 

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1. Difference bezel--why platinum? to reinforce the pompous/elite status of yacthing? Use unobtanium instead.
2. Different case and lugs--not different enough. A variant.
3. Hands/Markers different (Maxi dial on YM)--yacthing dude needs more night visibility than a diving dude?
4. Dial color/material is different--oooh, feel the texture!
5. Different clasp--ok
6. Both have Oyster bracelets, but the YM has the polished center link which are solid, not hollow like on the Sub.--c'mon, you could have left this one out.
7. Different water resistance - designed for different applications.--yacthing dude could just as well be served w/any water resistant watch. Being splashed w/salty water. God forbid he/she falls in to the salty water.
Lets face it, the YM is a glorified Submariner except it has a completely useless piece of platinum for a bezel.

Anyway, lets gets back on how much a GMT & Explorer are different from each other. Sort of like a 1981 Cadillac Eldorado is different from an Oldsmobile Riviera, of the same vintage.
OK, first of all, let's remember to be friendly all... A gentlemanly debate is fine. But let's not start throwing verbal stones... Sarcasm's fine & fun to a point, then it becomes arrogant & insulting. Let's not get that far...

So to your points above,

1. Difference bezel--why platinum? to reinforce the pompous/elite status of yachting? Use unobtanium instead.
Forget the metal. It's still different. The sub's bezel height is 1.1mm to .5mm on the YM OK - .6mm, big deal, right. Maybe - but it's still different. The sub has a "V" shaped bezel (from a side view) where the YM has a flat shape. Are these points different? Yes. Is it vastly different? Define vastly. Does it need to be a scallop edge to be different?

2. Different case and lugs--not different enough. A variant.
By this definition every car on the planet is the same. They're all shaped about the same. Does that mean they are the same? Or that a DJ case is not different enough either? The sub's case is thicker (1mm+), has flat lugs (the YM has curved lugs), has pointed lug ends (YM has rounded lug ends), smaller & thinner crown guards (YM is thicker & blunter), and is slightly shorter (1mm shorter tip to tip). Those may seem like small, insignificant items, but added up - it's a different case.

3. Hands/Markers different (Maxi dial on YM)--yachting dude needs more night visibility than a diving dude?
Whatever the reason, the markers are different. Again, what's the definition of different? Radical markers, sticks instead of round markers? But I'll give that this is maybe an improved vs. different hands/markers.

4. Dial color/material is different--oooh, feel the texture!
Not just 'texture'. Remember, there more YM's than the SS / Platinum. The TT offers a blue (& it's not the same blue as the Sub); white, blue or black MOP; steel or white with black onyx markers. Surely you'd agree no sub is offered in a white dial with onyx markers and that that is a different dial (BTW, if memory serves, the white dial was the original YM dial & the others came after).

5. Different clasp--ok
6. Both have Oyster bracelets, but the YM has the polished center link which are solid, not hollow like on the Sub.--c'mon, you could have left this one out.
That's a substantial difference. I much prefer a solid center bracelet to hollow links. Granted, polished centers may be a minor point (BTW, the sides on the YM are polished to where the sub is brushed) but it's still a point.

7. Different water resistance - designed for different applications.--yacthing dude could just as well be served w/any water resistant watch. Being splashed w/salty water. God forbid he/she falls in to the salty water.
I don't know the mechanics on this one, so I won't talk to it.

Lets face it, the YM is a glorified Submariner except it has a completely useless piece of platinum for a bezel.
First, 'useless' is an opinion. Many people would say spending over $100 on a watch is a useless waste of money. Does that mean we're all wastefull people for spending our money on useless items? No, that's an opinion, and everyone's entitled to it. We all find value in our Rolex's, and for us its not useless. And again, the bezels are NOT the same bezel, with or without the insert. Personally, I find value in a metal bezel insert vs. the aluminum one. But that's my opinion.

Add up all the above. Is the YM similar to the Sub? Sure, it's a sport watch. I can go name 50 different models that are similar. But it is not a glorified sub as before it could be a glorified it would first have to be a sub. Remove the bezel, the case, dial, hands and the center links. What are you left with that's the same? The movement, the clasp & the crown. And if that's the distinction we use, then we can say almost all Rolex's (or any other brand for that matter) are just glorified versions of another.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Alright. With all sarcasm aside, Rolex themselves went and changed the YM to a completely different watch. That should tell you something. I rest my case.
Mike
 
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