[Word of Mouse]

I would love to add a Rolex Sub but couldn't justify (for myself) the price. And the smaller dial face would honestly look out of place in my collection and on my arm, frankly speaking...but I digress. So I began to search for quality alternatives and one of the first watches that came up was the Steinhart Ocean 1. As I began to read the numerous reviews, two things struck me:

1. The Steinhart Ocean 1 seems to be an awesome watch for the price and is often compared to watches costing several times the asking price.
2. Rolex fans apparently have much ire for Steinhart; presumably because certain Steinhart watches resemble those of Rolex.

I realize that posting this question in the German Watch forum will probably net a few more pro-Steinhart answers but it's not my objective to create a Rolex-bashing thread. In fact, if money were no object, I'd probably own a Sub myself (but it is, so I won't). What I'm chiefly interested in is why you think there may be so many pro-Rolex fans who reserve a special distaste for Steinhart even though Invicta, Stuhrling, Armitron and other companies have been making Submariner clones for years longer than Steinhart. Do you think Steinhart's quality to price ratio may seen somewhat threatening to many Rolex fans? Is it simply that Steinhart fans seem a bit to smug in their love for these watches, which causes a bit of backlash. Or am I simply far off-base in my perception? It just seems to me that I noticed a lot of anti-Steinhart sentiment when I was researching my purchase.

Again, I'm not taking sides. I'm just fascinated in the phenomenon. Heck, I'd have both of these fine watches if my wife wouldn't nail my testicles to the wall for buying a $10K Rolex. :lol:

 

[Steve]

I think you're pretty much spot on.

I asked a question a few weeks back about "sterile" watches. I've been considering one which looks like a Rolex GMT II. I have no illusion that the quality of the watch is even close to the Steinhart, much less the Rolex, but it became real evident, real fast, that some folks get pretty bent out of shape at the very thought of someone buying a watch with that styling that didn't come with a huge price tag.

I have two basic criteria when I buy a watch: I want it to be an automatic and I need to like the styling. If that styling happens to look like something else, that someone else dropped severe coin on, and they have a problem with it, well, they just need to work through that...

 

[Watchbreath]

:glare: Perhaps, like myself, they don't like companies that make their living making knockoffs.

And those companies don't make "homage' watches either.

 

[Word of Mouse]

Watchbreath: I can completely understand that but my question was regarding why Steinhart seems to draw extra flak for performing essentially the same type of 'knockoff,' 'homage' (take your pick). It seems that watch aficionados almost give a free pass to companies that produce more budget-minded watches (such as Invicta and Armitron) for their watches, but because Steinhart is actually producing a decent product, it seems to be more of an irritant.

The analogy that just came to mind was the days when I used to drive a fast Mustang. Corvette and Camaro drivers and the like seemed to become more competition-minded when I'd pull up to the light next to them, whereas they'd pay no mind to economy cars and pickup trucks (presumably because they didn't constitute a 'threat').

However, I agree regarding your homage statement. To me, making a true 'homage' is to honor a watch by making something similar without a profit motive. Having said that, most businesses use the design cues of their competitors. Four years ago, my wife made sport of my giant cellphone and Apple didn't make one that size. However, because of the rising popularity of larger phones, Apple has suddenly reversed their earlier stance, and my wife has an Apple 6+ that looks really close to mine in terms of size and design. I guess it all comes down to what you consider being close and being a copy in terms of styling. I know I wouldn't want to be a judge trying to sort out what constitutes a close look-alike or a blatant rip-off.

 

[Thunder1]

"Watchbreath: I can completely understand that but my question was regarding why Steinhart seems to draw extra flak for performing essentially the same type of 'knockoff,' 'homage' (take your pick). It seems that watch aficionados almost give a free pass to companies that produce more budget-minded watches (such as Invicta and Armitron) for their watches, but because Steinhart is actually producing a decent product, it seems to be more of an irritant. "

I have noticed some animosity generated towards the Steinhart that some other Sub-like watches haven't seemed to attract...like you, I chalk it up to the fact that the Steinhart is a particularly well made watch available at much lower price points...also, keep in mind that peoples' tastes in watches and brands can differ quite a bit for no readily apparent reason...

 

[Accutronitis]

I think in a lot of cases it has to do with brand loyalty and the more those loyalists perceive a different brand is a threat to their particular brand which ever that brand may be the more animosity you will see directed at the threat whether or not that perceived threat be real or imaginary.

Also that perceived threat can take many forms like cutting into the bottom line, better styling, more reliable, and so on, and so on. Remember it doesn't have to be true, it just has to be perceived as true.......

OR it could just be that Steinhart watches suck....................... I'm just kidding ! :lol:

 

[NAWCC]

about "sterile" watches.

What exactly is a "sterile" watch? Sounds like something that can not have children, is that correct?
Thanks

 

[Accutronitis]

What exactly is a "sterile" watch?

No brand name on it.......

 

[Word of Mouse]

The Chinese quasi-company Parnis has a great 'sterile' Rolex Sub 'homage' that runs a good Sea-Gull movement, has sapphire glass and a ceramic bezel for about $130. It appears to get rave reviews, but for some reason, even though Parnis has many watches on the market, they didn't place a name on the dial face of this particular watch.

 

[NAWCC]

No brand name on it.......

Thanks
I term that a "Homage" watch, seems a safer name, as companies like Panerai do have watches without their name or logo on the dial.
Adam

 

[Watchbreath]

:glare:

The Chinese quasi-company Parnis has a great 'sterile' Rolex Sub 'homage' that runs a good Sea-Gull movement, has sapphire glass and a ceramic bezel for about $130. It appears to get rave reviews, but for some reason, even though Parnis has many watches on the market, they didn't place a name on the dial face of this particular watch.

Names like parnis can be best called, 'shanzhai'.

 

[Accutronitis]

Thanks
I term that a "Homage" watch, seems a safer name, as companies like Panerai do have watches without their name or logo on the dial.
Adam

The term homage is defined as “respect or reverence paid or rendered” so a homage watch is generally thought to be one that “pays respect” to another watch by using elements of its design or style where as a "sterile" watch is a exact copy or at least a very close copy but it has no branding on it so as to not be confused as or passed off as the real thing........ :thumbup1:

 

[NAWCC]

That is exactly what I see Steinhart and other do, when the market a piece that is basically a take off of another (greater) brand.

Anyway, I never heard the word "sterile" used, but "homage" i have, here on WTF.

Any way not an important thing
a

 

[Word of Mouse]

I know this subject has been played-out to infinity and beyond on multiple watch forums, but the whole 'copying the Submariner look' starts to become a 'chicken or the egg' scenario if you look back at history. So the story goes, the Rolex Sub took its design from the Blancpain 50 Fathoms, but there is no way this could be so because the Blancpain only preceded the Submariner by a few months, at most. And if Rolex was the maniacal tester and engineer in the early 50s that they are today, there is simply no way they would have copied the design of another watch. Having researched this a couple of times, I have come to the personal conclusion that the design we now regard as the 'Submariner look' is more of an evolution that began in the 1930s, and spans several companies over that 20+ year time period. This may explain why Rolex is reluctant to tackle the issue; because they know it would be both exceedingly difficult to attack the thousands of watch brands out there making Sub 'homages,' and even more difficult to prove they are the specific company that started that distinctive look (although there is little doubt that is was the Rolex Submariner that popularized it). It is likely that they'd rather concentrate their effort on the small number of manufacturers producing fake watches bearing the Rolex name, where they may have more success. Though I doubt it...

However, Steinhart is at a crucial time in its development as a manufacturer because they don't want to be known as the company that became known for making great Rolex Sub clones. That depiction is actually inaccurate at least in terms of attempting to look exactly like a Submariner, because even a blind dingbat can spot the size, text and fitment differences between an Ocean 1 and a Submariner from several feet away, which I can't do with some of the other watches that fit the description of a clone, homage, etc. So I have a feeling that they will continue to expand their product line outward in order to make their designs more unique.

Truth be told, collectors have never had it so good. There are more brands and makes than ever before and the quality of even some of the most economical watches has improved exponentially. 15 years ago, you could count the number of manufacturers who made excellent watches for less than $1K on one hand, give or take. But there are probably 50 companies out there that possess great offerings in that price range now. Modern steel and advanced machining and design techniques benefit us all.

OK, don't know where all of that came from but I'm done. :laugh:

 

[Accutronitis]

That is exactly what I see Steinhart and other do, when the market a piece that is basically a take off of another (greater) brand.

Anyway, I never heard the word "sterile" used, but "homage" i have, here on WTF.

Any way not an important thing
a

I've seen "sterile" quite a few times on a number of forums, Try google with "sterile watch" and see what you get.....

 

[NAWCC]

I've seen "sterile" quite a few times on a number of forums, Try google with "sterile watch" and see what you get.....

Very Interesting suggestion
First I typed Homage Wat - and google popped up with Homage Watches
with over 2million hits, with excellent examples like this"
Five Famous watches and their Homage alternatives ...
or
Homage watches collection on eBay!
or
Rolex Homage Watches collection on eBay!
Then I tried Sterile Watches - and google came up with Sterile Dial Watches
with less than 160,000 hits, versus 2 million for "Homage"
With quite useless headings like this:
What is a sterile dial? - Watchuseek, The Most Visited Watch
and
Minimilist watches? | EDCForums

So from my side, I continue to use and explain "homage" for these type of timepieces.

Thanks your suggestion, it helps me confirm to "homage"

 

[Accutronitis]

Very Interesting suggestion
First I typed Homage Wat - and google popped up with Homage Watches
with over 2million hits, with excellent examples like this"
Five Famous watches and their Homage alternatives ...
or
Homage watches collection on eBay!
or
Rolex Homage Watches collection on eBay!
Then I tried Sterile Watches - and google came up with Sterile Dial Watches
with less than 160,000 hits, versus 2 million for "Homage"
With quite useless headings like this:
What is a sterile dial? - Watchuseek, The Most Visited Watch
and
Minimilist watches? | EDCForums

So from my side, I continue to use and explain "homage" for these type of timepieces.

Thanks your suggestion, it helps me confirm to "homage"

Use what ever you like but like i said a homage watch is generally thought to be one that “pays respect” to another watch by using elements of a well known watch design or style and also has their own brand and or model name on the watch where as a "sterile" watch is a exact copy or at least a very close copy of a well known watch but it has no brand or model name on it, They are two different things but go ahead and lump them all together if you like and heck while your at it throw "clone", "fake", and "knock off", oh and don't forget to toss "replica" in there as well.

If that's what you want to do i say go for it because after all i can't make you be right........

If you never heard the term "sterile" as it applies to a watch before today you should prob try to read more about watches........

 

[Accutronitis]

Very Interesting suggestion
First I typed Homage Wat - and google popped up with Homage Watches
with over 2million hits, with excellent examples like this"
Five Famous watches and their Homage alternatives ...
or
Homage watches collection on eBay!
or
Rolex Homage Watches collection on eBay!
Then I tried Sterile Watches - and google came up with Sterile Dial Watches
with less than 160,000 hits, versus 2 million for "Homage"
With quite useless headings like this:
What is a sterile dial? - Watchuseek, The Most Visited Watch
and
Minimilist watches? | EDCForums

So from my side, I continue to use and explain "homage" for these type of timepieces.

Thanks your suggestion, it helps me confirm to "homage"

Hummmm i just did a google search for "sterile" watch and got 500,000 hits and these were the hits on the first page.......

Sterile Submariner: Watches | eBay
Submariner Ceramic Bezel Sterile dial 2836 Movement Watch
what does sterile mean when talking about watches
Parnis Sterile Submariner Homage Watch Review
GMT 1665 Sterile Super Luminova Watch Dial for Swiss
Wholesale sterile watch dial - AliExpress.com
NEITON 43mm GMT Master Sterile Watch

Maybe you should take a "how to use the internet" class......

 

[Watchbreath]

:glare: Something to keep in mind,

Knockoff + lipstick + delusion = homage.

 

[NAWCC]

:glare: Something to keep in mind,

Knockoff + lipstick + delusion = homage.

Yep - I can see that.
a