[bl4ckph4nt0m]

I recently started collecting watches. I watched a video on Hodinkee channel -

Bill Higgins showed his Accutron Spaceview and I fell in love.

I am looking to buy one.

• Anyone have guide on these watches?
• Price is ranging from $450 to 2000. I can’t seem to figure out why there is such a price diff. A lot of the $500-600 are serviced, why would I not get that instead of spending $2k ?
• How do I spot fakes ?

 

[mikeyt_53]

Welcome to WTF. I would suggest that you read thru some of the 'Stickies' at the top of this forum. There is a considerable amount of information contained there. As for buying these watches, there are a lot of unscrupulous Accutron sellers and fake/altered Spaceviews out there. Always buy from someone you can trust. And if you have a specific watch you are interested in, there is always someone in this group that can answer your questions.

 

[Spaceview M2]

I recently started collecting watches. I watched a video on the Hodinkee channel. Bill Higgins showed his Accutron Spaceview and I fell in love.

I am looking to buy one.

• Anyone have a guide on these watches?
• Price is ranging from $450 to 2000. I can’t seem to figure out why there is such a price diff. A lot of the $500-600 are serviced, why would I not get that instead of spending $2k ?
• How do I spot fakes?

1. Welcome to the WTF Forum.

2. Spotting a fake or a bit better word would be a non-spaceview case 'conversion' is really only done well with lots of experience and a nice collection of reference material to aid you. It's just the nature of the beast. There are about 37 known legit Spaceview cases so remembering all that detail is daunting even for seasoned experts. 90% or so Spaceviews for sale are non-spaceview case conversions. You ask why? Well as you even mentioned in one of your questions. Why spend $2000 if you can spend $300-400. That is about 90% of what collectors will say, either due to budget, knowledge, or other reasons beyond them wanting to spend time and find a really hard-to-find Spaceview. It's not easy. So you have a wide range of prices due to questionable sellers trying to gouge buyers without the true knowledge of what they are buying. Also, since 90% or so of buyers don't care if the Spaceview is real, the fake market feeds on itself. And the real Spacview market suffers some since most can't spot a true correct OEM Spaceview. In many cases, you will see a horrible fake Spaceview sell for the same price as a very nice 99.9% correct spaceview. There is no real pricing regularity due to the overwhelming amount of fake or bad conversions but that market is fueled by the very people that end up buying those watches. A Spaceview is a novelty item to many and they want one but don't care or even know it's a regular watch with the dial removed. So the cycle continues. There are some nice Spaceviews out there and some are valued at or near $2000.00 but even those that are mostly solid gold can be fakes, or at least Spaceview cased watches with cheap aftermarket parts and incorrect internals (Hands, crystals, movements, etc).

3. Your best bet is to look at Spaceview case shapes that appeal to you. Maybe get a feel for the look you are after with the hands-on the watches, or if you desire gold or stainless version and then start narrowing down your search and then post some specific questions on the forum. And if you end up scratching your head (as many do) and get overwhelmed by all the stuff on there and quit caring if it's fake and just want one, then you need to buy one from a reputable seller which again would lead you here to ask advice. Without typing a longer novel, that's the short of Spaceview collecting.

.

 

[CometHunter]

From one collector to another, I think you worded that rather well!

 

[bl4ckph4nt0m]

1. Welcome to the WTF Forum.

2. Spotting a fake or a bit better word would be a non-spaceview case 'conversion' is really only done well with lots of experience and a nice collection of reference material to aid you. It's just the nature of the beast. There are about 37 known legit Spaceview cases so remembering all that detail is daunting even for seasoned experts. 90% or so Spaceviews for sale are non-spaceview case conversions. You ask why? Well as you even mentioned in one of your questions. Why spend $2000 if you can spend $300-400. That is about 90% of what collectors will say, either due to budget, knowledge, or other reasons beyond them wanting to spend time and find a really hard-to-find Spaceview. It's not easy. So you have a wide range of prices due to questionable sellers trying to gouge buyers without the true knowledge of what they are buying. Also, since 90% or so of buyers don't care if the Spaceview is real, the fake market feeds on itself. And the real Spacview market suffers some since most can't spot a true correct OEM Spaceview. In many cases, you will see a horrible fake Spaceview sell for the same price as a very nice 99.9% correct spaceview. There is no real pricing regularity due to the overwhelming amount of fake or bad conversions but that market is fueled by the very people that end up buying those watches. A Spaceview is a novelty item to many and they want one but don't care or even know it's a regular watch with the dial removed. So the cycle continues. There are some nice Spaceviews out there and some are valued at or near $2000.00 but even those that are mostly solid gold can be fakes, or at least Spaceview cased watches with cheap aftermarket parts and incorrect internals (Hands, crystals, movements, etc).

3. Your best bet is to look at Spaceview case shapes that appeal to you. Maybe get a feel for the look you are after with the hands-on the watches, or if you desire gold or stainless version and then start narrowing down your search and then post some specific questions on the forum. And if you end up scratching your head (as many do) and get overwhelmed by all the stuff on there and quit caring if it's fake and just want one, then you need to buy one from a reputable seller which again would lead you here to ask advice. Without typing a longer novel, that's the short of Spaceview collecting.

.

Wow thank you so much.

Out of all the vintage watches, I had to get very fascinated to a watch that requires intensive amount of research to find an authentic, lol.

You are absolutely right, there is so much to this and can be overwhelming. But in the last couple days, I think I have gathered information to be able identify a legit spaceview (I think, by no means I think I am at any of your guys level). I also was able to get a hold of couple watchmakers who specialize in Accutron who are willing to advise me on my potential purchase.

Links that I really found helpful during my research

• Definitely the stickies here
• https://mybulova.com/bulova-serial-numbers
• http://members.ii.net/~fotoplot/accspace.htm
• https://www.mybulova.com/sites/default/files/file/Bulova-ABC-Accutron-Crystal-Catalog.pdf
• New Page 1

Questions

• Are the cushions spaceview less likely to be conversion ?
• I have my eye on these two, what are you guys thoughts

• Vintage NOS Cal. 214 Bulova Accutron Spaceview Watch, Factory Box | eBay
• Men's Bulova Accutron Space View Watch | eBay

 

[Spaceview M2]

stickies here

• Are the cushions spaceview less likely to be conversion ?
• I have my eye on these two, what are you guys thoughts

• Vintage NOS Cal. 214 Bulova Accutron Spaceview Watch, Factory Box | eBay
• Men's Bulova Accutron Space View Watch | eBay

The first one (Bbart seller) is nice but I would question if that is NOS. I have seen him sell a few clean Accutrons and have dealt with him in the past ( conversations about 1 or 2 items for sale and it was not a pleasant experience) but overall, I would be very cautious with him. Most of his stuff is overpriced and not represented as it should. For him to say a watch has never been worn is a red flag. How would anybody know that? If you are saying that to prop up a price, then that is a red flag, and that is what he is doing. And that 1973 Chapter Ring isn't anything special and isn't worth anything near that price. There are a few other things with that watch to make me scratch my head and I would avoid it.

One thing I noticed was the caseback. I would have to question him on the so-called NOS never worn story. I circled one area that looks feathered from the grained flat transition area and the shiny beveled area. Without having close-up pics to determine the exact story, below is what a restored and barely worn caseback looks like. Unless you get a close-up on some of these restored cases, they may look like and may even be described as never worn but buyer beware. My pics show the difference.

bbart caseback pic: Notice the feathered transition edge. That graining and transition edge look restored and not NOS an unworn. But pics are hard to decipher sometimes.

My examples below. Both are 1961 White Gold Alphas. The left watch has hardly seen any arm time and is very crisp and clean. The right watch has been restored by Replateit. Both at a distance look very similar.

But if you get a close-up of the casebacks you can see a sharp contrast of hardly worn vs restored. Notice the difference in the edge transition area.

Restored caseback edge transition area.

Compare the above pic to this: Unrestored and barely worn edge transition area. Very crisp and sharp edge.

So I would be asking bbart for very specific pics to determine if that Chapter Ring watch case has been restored and advertised as NOS. Restoring that case would only cost about $85.00. These are just a few questions I would have if I was looking at that watch but I would pass on anything he was selling. IMHO.


The second one sold and is a Swiss Chapter Ring Spaceview. As far as I recall, the hands on Swiss Chapter Rings should be case color (silver or gold and not white luminous so they are probably replacement hands(Pics below are Swiss Chapter Rings but for whatever reason, those ads both look like they have Gold hands). But Chapter Ring Spaceviews, in general, are not converted Spaceviews, although they can have the wrong hands and replacements movements in them.

Two Swiss Chapter Rings Ads.