WATCH TALK FORUMS banner
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Pershing Twins Elgin and Waltham

Been itching to post this couple for a while, but I've been away from home for the last month.

You may remember my all original (incl crown) 1918 Elgin in a Sterling Silver Illinois case



I finally have its twin - a Waltham Pershing, which I find pretty compelling in the originality stakes, with a Sterling Silver J. Depollier case, most likely original silver crown, 1927 movement and the hands look authentic too. Depollier and Waltham had a strong relationship in the teens through 20s.



Movement is unserviced and needs a clean (but running well).





Dial is nice and crisp, with clean crisp stars and logo and sub-dial everything fits together in a non messed with time-capsule way. There are a couple of dodgy dials around (I know, I have one) and the quality of this one and the other is day and night. I can't see any differences from Adams, with respect to the dial. Unlike the Elgins, I can see no evidence that these were lumed, so the white hands are what I would expect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,640 Posts
Those look great! I love the color of polished sterling, it's a shame so few watches are made from it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Those look great! I love the color of polished sterling, it's a shame so few watches are made from it.
Thanks, finding a Waltham version took a long time...

I've only ever seen one Waltham Pershing. Stan worked on it IIRC.

Very nice watches, my friend!
Thanks. I don't think Stan did Adam's though - although I could easily be wrong. His was here.

*EDIT* Ohhhh, I get it. It was Stan who did the original resto of Adam's. I exchanged email over that one with Stan before he sold it to Adam. It was back in 2010, and I never made the mental connection with the Stan here on WTF... Small world hey!

So this is the 2nd to come up then - plus one dodgy dial. I was thinking it was the 3rd, due to counting the first one twice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
...I came back to sneak another peak, i love it!
Thanks again - I'm pretty happy with it. The only things I've done is to replace the crystal and give the case a little polish. I will service the movement sometime, but nothing else really needs doing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,203 Posts
Very cool! Interesting how they come from different manufacturers and case manufacturers but, still are so true to one another! :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
121 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Very cool! Interesting how they come from different manufacturers and case manufacturers but, still are so true to one another! :thumbup:
Thanks! Although it is the little detail differences I find most interesting. The additional 2 stars in the shield on the Waltham so they could fit the longer name, the non recessed subdial - which is nicer on the Waltham with a rail track, etc. I do note that the Waltham appears about 10 years after the Elgins (1917 vs 1927) at least both known Walthams have been from this time period. 10 years for a registered design/trademark/patent to run out? It was 10 years for patents in Europe around this time, I don't know about the US. I do wonder.

Very nice to have one of each ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Thanks. I find the different movements interesting, the one you restored was a grade 365, unadjusted. This one is a 367 adjusted otherwise identical, and close in serial number to link them in time.'

What is really the icing on the cake is the lovely Depollier silver case. I would have taken it no matter what, but this one makes me extra pleased.

Hopefully you don't regret too much letting yours go to Adam - although it is in great hands.

K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,531 Posts
I have only seen one Waltham, and that is the Adam one...

That is Super Trim!!!

Stan, have you ever seen one out there?

Gang...

I would Love to add one to my Pershing Collection some day!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,041 Posts
I have only seen one Waltham, and that is the Adam one...

That is Super Trim!!!

Stan, have you ever seen one out there?

Gang...

I would Love to add one to my Pershing Collection some day!
Yes, they can be obtained.

I have seen 3, maybe 4 in the past year.

Some were correct while others were very bad re-finished dials.

Two had movements dating back to 1918 & 1920.

I don't think that patents have anything to do with it, I can think of at least 10 dials from this period from Waltham and Elgin that are absolutely identical to each other except for the name signature.

The Waltham Pershing is ALWAYS a metal dial while the Elgin Pershing is always an enamel dial, the black ones.

The white ones from BOTH manufacturers are ALWAYS metal.

Yes, there is a white Waltham Pershing! It was available with and without a second hand just like the black ones.

The guy that lists about one Elgin Pershing in a cushion case per week on the bay is selling them with FAKE Pershing dials ! ! !

The same goes for his Avigos ! ! !

BUYER BEWARE ! ! ! ! !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,531 Posts
Yes, they can be obtained.

I have seen 3, maybe 4 in the past year.

Some were correct while others were very bad re-finished dials.

Two had movements dating back to 1918 & 1920.

I don't think that patents have anything to do with it, I can think of at least 10 dials from this period from Waltham and Elgin that are absolutely identical to each other except for the name signature.

The Waltham Pershing is ALWAYS a metal dial while the Elgin Pershing is always an enamel dial, the black ones.

The white ones from BOTH manufacturers are ALWAYS metal.

Yes, there is a white Waltham Pershing! It was available with and without a second hand just like the black ones.

The guy that lists about one Elgin Pershing in a cushion case per week on the bay is selling them with FAKE Pershing dials ! ! !

The same goes for his Avigos ! ! !

BUYER BEWARE ! ! ! ! !
Put me in for 2 Walthams (off center)
Black and White, no rush!:biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,041 Posts
Put me in for 2 Walthams (off center)
Black and White, no rush!:biggrin:
Not an easy task ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

That might take a year or two or three.....................

I'll do my best though!
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top