WATCH TALK FORUMS banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm more of an Accutron collector and this watch was passed down in the family. Just trying to get some info as it is a little vague on these.



From comparables, it appears to be an early 40's military style. I can't find any with the inner 24 hour marks and a subdial like this. On the dial it says Oyster Geneve, crown reads Oyster Patent. The back has a coin type edge, are the backs on these screw off or pry up? I would like to see a case and movement number.

Any feedback on the specifics and/or value would be appreciated, not looking to resell but need to resolve an accurate value for family reasons.

Cheers
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,088 Posts
I'm more of an Accutron collector and this watch was passed down in the family. Just trying to get some info as it is a little vague on these.



From comparables, it appears to be an early 40's military style. I can't find any with the inner 24 hour marks and a subdial like this. On the dial it says Oyster Geneve, crown reads Oyster Patent. The back has a coin type edge, are the backs on these screw off or pry up? I would like to see a case and movement number.

Any feedback on the specifics and/or value would be appreciated, not looking to resell but need to resolve an accurate value for family reasons.

Cheers
Can you see a reference or serial number on anywhere on the watch case?
Arthur
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The serial number is pretty worn, it looks like a 5 digit number , the second number is too obscure though so we have been able to discern 1?141 (we think). As mentioned I'm not sure how the back comes off so I do not have any of the internal numbers. From what I have gleaned, similar versions were popular with Canadian soldiers in WW II.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
615 Posts
well a picture of the face withOUT the hands obscuring the markings would help.
Then a picture of the movement. Is the crown an 'oyster' crown, looks not to me. all Rolex even for Canada market have the Rolex/Oyster marking. Pics.
Back will be a SCREW on do NOT try to pry it.
Is it Rolex, not sure without more pictures.
Regards
A
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,088 Posts
well a picture of the face withOUT the hands obscuring the markings would help.
Then a picture of the movement. Is the crown an 'oyster' crown, looks not to me. all Rolex even for Canada market have the Rolex/Oyster marking. Pics.
Back will be a SCREW on do NOT try to pry it.
Is it Rolex, not sure without more pictures.
Regards
A
The dial looks to be redone..
Arthur
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not a reallly good shot but here is another of the face
It is an oyster crown
and is marked oyster patent.

The best reference I have found so far is this one: Vintage Canadian Rolex Watches

As for the dial, it looks like it may be original and the lume and paint have flaked a little. Members of the family remember it back as far as 50 years
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I managed to fabricate a case back wrench for it todayand took some photos.

The inside case back is marked TUDOR with a ref # 4453:



The movement is a 59, 15 ruby swiss made:







Any thoughts from the more learned here?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
615 Posts
An interesting piece
Yes surely a Rolex Caliber 59 made NOT by Aegler by a company called Fontainmellon (NOT Fontmelon - I can not believe they never correct that).
These pieces were made for Canadian market and had names likr Lipton, Oyster, Centegraph, Raleigh etc.

I never heard of a Tudor 'case' made like that?? Maybe a marriage case to movement, not sure.
To me the face has been re-done. Rolex would not in my opinion overprint 24 hour numbers on 12 hour markers. It looks to heavy and wrong, probably re-lumed.

I cannot add on the Tudor part No 4453 - It is surely NOT a Rolex model no.
Regards
Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In my research, I have come across a number of these "Oyster" watches with fairly heavy lume. Given that it is a military style I would think this is quite common for visibility. Also, as the lume is done by hand on these older watches I would not expect perfection even on older high end watches.

I've noticed comparing other vintage watches that the lume can undergo an efflorescence That makes the lume look "puffy" and results in heavy flaking on some.

If this particular one was relumed, it was done a long time ago as the provenance is pretty solid.

As to the 4453 Tudor case and movement combo, I have found this also quite common on the Oysters of this era/style.

I will grant that the watch has some condition issues but runs perfectly. I polished it up some and put on a new band and will send it out for a proper cleaning soon.

I was hoping to get a rough valuation based on others experience with the Oyster watches.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
615 Posts
In my research, I have come across a number of these "Oyster" watches with fairly heavy lume. Given that it is a military style I would think this is quite common for visibility. Also, as the lume is done by hand on these older watches I would not expect perfection even on older high end watches.

I've noticed comparing other vintage watches that the lume can undergo an efflorescence That makes the lume look "puffy" and results in heavy flaking on some.

If this particular one was relumed, it was done a long time ago as the provenance is pretty solid.

As to the 4453 Tudor case and movement combo, I have found this also quite common on the Oysters of this era/style.

I will grant that the watch has some condition issues but runs perfectly. I polished it up some and put on a new band and will send it out for a proper cleaning soon.

I was hoping to get a rough valuation based on others experience with the Oyster watches.
Hi Chromspec

well your thoughts may be 100% correct. I am not an expert, I can only give a best opinion based on the pictures, and that is not the best way.
We agree that this is a Rolex watch.
It is a Caliber 59 made NOT by Aegler but Fontainmellon for the Canadian market.
For some reason it has a Tudor case back. why? I got no idea.

So a valuation, based on what I know feel
1) Dial is reworked albeit a long time ago. But maybe it was 'just' a 'Lipton' originally??
2) Fontainmellon caliber 59
3) Tudor case

Based on that I would say $700 to $1100
The bid spread is based on if buyers accept original dial or not.

Hope that helps
Regards
Adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the input!

I talked with a dealer up here who specializes in these and was given an estimate of around $700 (upper end) but the vintage market can be a funny thing. I just wanted a rough idea for those in the family that thought it might be worth a lot. Kind of glad to find out it's not worth too much, this way I keep it in my collection. From what I have picked up from a few other sources, Oyster employees were given some artistic license with naming and dial design. Definitely not the finished quality of the parent company.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
615 Posts
Thanks for the input!

I talked with a dealer up here who specializes in these and was given an estimate of around $700 (upper end) but the vintage market can be a funny thing. I just wanted a rough idea for those in the family that thought it might be worth a lot. Kind of glad to find out it's not worth too much, this way I keep it in my collection. From what I have picked up from a few other sources, Oyster employees were given some artistic license with naming and dial design. Definitely not the finished quality of the parent company.
Hi Chromspec
Thanks your honesty, I was pretty close then at $700 to $1100, based on $1100 being an original dial.

Its a nice piece, I have a Lipton and a bunch of GREAT vintage Rolex too.

Keep it and enjoy

Best
A
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
615 Posts
Thanks for the input!

I talked with a dealer up here who specializes in these and was given an estimate of around $700 (upper end) but the vintage market can be a funny thing. I just wanted a rough idea for those in the family that thought it might be worth a lot. Kind of glad to find out it's not worth too much, this way I keep it in my collection. From what I have picked up from a few other sources, Oyster employees were given some artistic license with naming and dial design. Definitely not the finished quality of the parent company.
Hi Chromspec
Thanks your honesty, I was pretty close then at $700 to $1100, based on $1100 being an original dial.

Its a nice piece, I have a Lipton and a bunch of GREAT vintage Rolex too.

Keep it and enjoy

Best
A
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top