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Should foreclosures be stopped?

  • Yes! These financial institutions are taking advantage of people by raising rates.

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • NO! They knew what they were signing and are responsible. Why should the government bail them out?

    Votes: 9 81.8%
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Discussion Starter #1
SOURCE: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1076105

A Suffolk Superior Court judge has issued a potential landmark order slowing down thousands of Massachusetts foreclosures and declaring whole classes of subprime mortgages “structurally unfair” under state law.

“It is both imprudent and unfair to approve mortgage loans that the borrowers cannot reasonably be expected to repay if housing prices were to fall,” Judge Ralph Gants wrote in a preliminary injunction against notorious subprime mortgage lender Fremont Investment and Loan. “Just because we as a society failed earlier to recognize that (many subprime loans) were generally unfair does not mean that we should ignore their tragic consequences and fail now to recognize that unfairness.”

Issuing a ruling in a lawsuit brought by Attorney General Martha Coakley, Gants ordered Fremont to work with state officials for up to 90 days to resolve late-mortgage cases before initiating foreclosure proceedings.

If the two sides fail to settle, Fremont can then foreclose on a home, but must prove it took “reasonable steps” to avoid doing so.

The ruling potentially covers some 3,000 Massachusetts mortgages issued or serviced by Fremont, one of the nation’s largest subprime lenders.
 

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I listened to a debate of this issue this afternoon.

Both sides had good points, but I tend to side with the compassionate tack.

People have no right to be saved from mortgages they can't pay, but given the scope of the problem and the impact it might have on every aspect of American life, if the government can soften the blow, then it ought to do so.

This is not a natural disaster, but it could be a very real disaster.

The government bails out people who repeated build and rebuild in flood planes and on oceanfronts.
 

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I have compassion. This is not a matter of compassion. This is a matter of personal responsibility. Do I seem like a bad guy that I have made money off of this. Should I as a taxpayer pay for someone who thinks they can buy a $400,000 house on a gross income of $50,000? Being stupid is not covered by the government. I as a taxpayer am offended by the lenders and the idiots being bailed out on this one.:cursing::cursing:
 

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I'm with James.. Unless the state can show the lender used fraud (such as no disclosure of terms, failure to accurately disclose truth-in-lending form, didn't accurately reflect the ARM resetting schedule, etc.) the government has no business putting their nose in this. People say they didn't have time to read all the forms, they didn't understand them, etc. Well you didn't have to agree to rush thru them, you didn't have to sign them until you'd asked questions. You didn't have to close that day without seeing all the form pre-closing. And you don't agree to an ARM unless you can pay at a higher rate. With all the advertisements on those, I really don't think anyone can say they didn't know the possibility was they'd go up in rates. They just hoped they wouldn't which wasn't realistic. Rates were at historic lows. Where else could they go in the future but up? IMO people need to stop looking to the government for money every time they make a bad decision. And also stop blaming everyone but themselves.

People IMO let their emotions dictate their closing of houses. They want it fast, fast, fast. But it's a business decision - the largest most people will ever make. They need to treat it as such. You also had people thinking they could turn a few quick bucks and as such bought houses way outside their price points.

For people where the lender truly defrauded or used extremely unethical practices, I can see stepping in. But outside of that, no..
 

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When we bought our house, we went with a fixed, and we knew what the monthly nut was going to be. If we were concerned about being able to make the mortgage payment ever month (about $600.00 more than we were paying in rent), we never would've bought the house. We educated ourselves on what home ownership meant. We were ready for it.

I'm sure there are those unscrupulous lenders out there who masage the numbers and get people to sign when, in reality, they probably shouldn't. That wouldn't happen in a perfect world but, hey, this isn't a perfect world.

In the movie Jurrasic Park, Richard Attenborough (as John Hammond) says a line that I've never forgotten:

"I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them."

I look at it like that. It's unfortunate. But it was avoidable...
 

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I can see both points on this issue. People ought to know what they're signing before they sign the papers; however, this crisis is impacting the entire country. There must be a middle ground to explore.
Now they are saying gas prices are going to move passed the $4/gallon mark by summer. There are going to be many people on the ropes from these two economic disasters.
 

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I have compassion. This is not a matter of compassion. This is a matter of personal responsibility.
Maybe compassion is the wrong word.

Maybe the government would rather not deal with a million-plus homeless families hitting the streets all at once.

Maybe it's just a matter of help them now or pay them later.
 

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I voted no. To sign an ARM is suicide, and 99% of the population knows this. Can the rates go down? Yes; but, in reality, when the rates are at historic lows, they can only go up. Fixed is the way to go.

What's next? We all purchase luxury cars and expect the government to bail us out because we could not afford the payments? I think I am going to purchase a modified Dodge Hennessey Viper SRT 10 or a Corvette Blue Devil ZR-1, finance the whole thing, with a 75% balloon payment at the end, and then scream when the final payment comes due. Then I will go on the news and ask the government to bail me out due to predatory lending.
 

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Maybe compassion is the wrong word.

Maybe the government would rather not deal with a million-plus homeless families hitting the streets all at once.

Maybe it's just a matter of help them now or pay them later.

How is the fact they bought a house they could afford my problem (and I don't want to get into a political discussion on social issues here)? While unscrupulous lenders are a problem that should be dealt (though we shouldn't bail those people out either IMO), the majority of these issues are because of one reason. People spent more than they should have. That is their problem. I should not be asked to pay my mortgage, (which I made sure I could afford) and the mortgage of someone who couldn't. I pay tax to run the government, not bail out the idiotic compulsive spenders. tax money shouldn't be used for bailouts. In the last 10 years, look at all these groups wanting bailed out. Has the US become a "Free Money for All Who Want It" group? it's soo easy now. Make a mistake? No problem, the government will bail it out...

Now, you want to help them, Ok fine - I might be able to live with that. But it better be something that they have to pay back or something. As Steve quoted, they must pay for their mistakes. Otherwise, they won't learn the lesson.

And just because they get foreclosed on doesn't necessarily mean they're going to become homeless. They will just need to downsize their living. Whether that's an apartment, condo, whatever.
 

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When we bought our house, we went with a fixed, and we knew what the monthly nut was going to be. If we were concerned about being able to make the mortgage payment ever month (about $600.00 more than we were paying in rent), we never would've bought the house. We educated ourselves on what home ownership meant. We were ready for it.

I'm sure there are those unscrupulous lenders out there who masage the numbers and get people to sign when, in reality, they probably shouldn't. That wouldn't happen in a perfect world but, hey, this isn't a perfect world.

In the movie Jurrasic Park, Richard Attenborough (as John Hammond) says a line that I've never forgotten:

"I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them."

I look at it like that. It's unfortunate. But it was avoidable...


Very well said! Excellent quote! :thumbup1:
 

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How is the fact they bought a house they could afford my problem (and I don't want to get into a political discussion on social issues here)? While unscrupulous lenders are a problem that should be dealt (though we shouldn't bail those people out either IMO), the majority of these issues are because of one reason. People spent more than they should have. That is their problem. I should not be asked to pay my mortgage, (which I made sure I could afford) and the mortgage of someone who couldn't. I pay tax to run the government, not bail out the idiotic compulsive spenders. tax money shouldn't be used for bailouts. In the last 10 years, look at all these groups wanting bailed out. Has the US become a "Free Money for All Who Want It" group? it's soo easy now. Make a mistake? No problem, the government will bail it out...

Now, you want to help them, Ok fine - I might be able to live with that. But it better be something that they have to pay back or something. As Steve quoted, they must pay for their mistakes. Otherwise, they won't learn the lesson.

And just because they get foreclosed on doesn't necessarily mean they're going to become homeless. They will just need to downsize their living. Whether that's an apartment, condo, whatever.
Abosolutely.:thumbup1:
 

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Fixed vs. ARM, who cares? You have to pay what you owe! It really is that simple. No one forced anyone into their mortgage as far as I know.

Are ARMs and teasers and whatnot predatory? Maybe, but for some reason my mailbox is full of credit card offers touting the same things ..... teaser rates for the first year and adjustable afterwards. If the average person doesn't understand how a credit card works (and most don't apparently as they are amazed at how it adds up) then I don't feel sorry for them in the slightest.

Unfortunately, too many of these "credit card" mortgages are out there and the idiots that took them will sink us all. They effectively barrowed mine, yours, and others deposits when they signed the loan. Now they lose our money them every month they fall behind.

I'm compassionate to the people but not for their actions. And I'm REALLY sorry this is happening in an election year allowing most of the candidates to pander "fixes" and other offerings for votes. These quick fixes only shift the burden back to all of us. Once again, in this country it doesn't pay to be prudent and financially conservative with your obligations. You might as well go with the hoard, lever yourself up, and then cry to the government because you've made a idiotic mistake.
 

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Now, you want to help them, Ok fine....
Let us clarify the situation. I voted in an informal poll and expressed an opinion that acknowledged the merits of both sides, but came down on one side, since we were asked to vote one way or the other.

I'm not really advocating one or the other, because frankly I don't own a house, have never owned a house and in all probability, I will never own a house and high finance is as abstruse to me as quantum physics.

I don't like to pay for other people's stupidity, but I've been doing it all my life.

Please don't take my position here in this discussion as anything but hypothetical.
 

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I personally do not think we should bail people out. People need to learn from their mistakes and not be able to cry everytime they do not think.

I feel that the government should step in but not fully bail them out. I understand the economic impact but I read a local story about how two people who worked full time at Wal-mart went and bought a 500,000 house and had 3 cars and ARM it all. I think it is a bunch of bull****.

BTW anybody read that in 9 years 20% of the GDP is going to be towards health care.
 

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Let us clarify the situation. I voted in an informal poll and expressed an opinion that acknowledged the merits of both sides, but came down on one side, since we were asked to vote one way or the other.

I'm not really advocating one or the other, because frankly I don't own a house, have never owned a house and in all probability, I will never own a house and high finance is as abstruse to me as quantum physics.

I don't like to pay for other people's stupidity, but I've been doing it all my life.

Please don't take my position here in this discussion as anything but hypothetical.

hey Grady,

I wasn't.. I was talking figuratively with the "you", wasn't aimed at anyone in particular....

And I agree.. We've been paying for other people's stupidity for a long time - like it or not.. It just seems like we're doing more of it each year... :glare: :glare: :sad:
 

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What he said. No seriously, I have found you Grady to be nothing if not a stand up guy. My apologies if anything I said you took as an offense.:cool:
Not at all, James13.

I appreciate this discussion forum very much.
 
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