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Hey guys ! ! !
There has been speculation for many years when it comes to the BEHEMOTH size 12s American Trench Watches...........................where any of them actually made ? ? ?
We can now put all speculation to rest................................they do in FACT exist ! ! ! !
But, it's not an Elgin, Waltham or Illinois that has been located, it's a CROWN.
Sold under the name "Crown Watch Company" but was actually made by the New York Standard Watch Company in New Jersey.
The New York Standard Watch Company was owned by the Keystone Watch Case Company who also owned the Philadelphia Watch Case Company and the case maker Bates & Bacon (B&B).
Yes, this will get a bit confusing, I had to re-read all of my research several times to get a grip on all of this.
During the Great War era Keystone was was constantly being sued by the United States government and other watch case manufacturers.
A lot of these suits had to do with the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, illegal monopolies and such.
Keystone was sued over the use of the name "Crown Watch Company", because this company really did not exist it was simply a shell name under the Keystone umbrella.
Maybe Keystone did this in an attempt to avoid further prosecution under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890 ? ? ?
Anyway, movements that were stamped with the Crown Watch Company name during the Great War era were cased in cases made by the Philadelphia Watch Case Company.
I have been able to locate 4 advertisements stating that the BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watches did exist but I have never actually held one in my hand................. that is until yesterday.
All four of these adverts were for the Illinois Watch Case Company, none were from any company owned by Keystone like Philadelphia.
Below are the four 12s trench watch advertisements.
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Take a look at the advert just above, the square case at the bottom right of the advert.
About a year ago I did in fact see one of these Illinois size 12s square trench watch cases but at the time I did not know what it was so I unfortunately took a pass.
Still beating myself up over this one to this very day, I should have pulled the trigger and bought that watch ! ! ! ! ! ! !
If you study the above four adverts you will notice something very strange.......................none of the adverts state that Illinois makes a GIANT size 6s trench watch case!
But, in fact they did make them, I've had no less than 10 of the size 6s cases made by the Illinois Watch Case Company.
I've had them in gold fill, solid nickel, sterling silver, semi-hermetic and with swivel lugs.
To the best of my knowledge the only companies that made GIANT size 6s trench watch cases were Bates & Bacon and Philadelphia (both owned by Keystone) and the Illinois Watch Case Company.
Size 6s cases that were made under the Philadelphia name were only made in "silverode" and cases made under the Bates & Bacon name were only made in gold fill using the case grade name "Royal".
The Illinois size 6s cases were made in gold fill, solid nickel and sterling silver.
The size 6s trench watch cases made by Philadelphia and Bates & Bacon were identical to each other in design and size because BOTH were owned by Keystone!
Which gets my to my point, up until now it was generally accepted that the GIANT size 6s trench watches were the biggest ones made because no BEHEMOTH size 12s examples have been found and documented.
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Now, all four of these cases were made by companies owned by Keystone, the case designs are the same.
Starting from the far left: Philadelphia "silverode" size 3/0s, Philadelphia "silverode size 0s, Bates & Bacon 10k gold filled "Royal" size 6s and finally the Philadelphia 10k gold filled size 12s trench watch case on the far right.
In my opinion this picture is EPIC ! ! ! !
Four different sizes of the same trench watch case design ! ! ! !
Just so you can get a grasp on how big this size 12s trench watch is I photographed it next to a size 3/0s Elgin Trench Watch.
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The size 3/0s measures 35mm lug to lug, 31.5mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
The BEHEMOTH size 12s Crown Trench Watch measures 53mm lug to lug, 47mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
And now here is a GIANT size 6s next to the BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watch.
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The size 6s measures 42mm lug to lug, 38mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
The 6s looks tiny next to the 12s ! ! !
A few shots of the 12s Crown by itself, this case is semi-hermetic!
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And now for some WRIST SHOTS ! ! !
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Unfortunately this size 12s Crown Trench Watch is broken and in need of MANY new parts.
One of the pallet jewels is cracked and the roller jewel is also cracked.
It needs a special stem which I do not have too.
Finding these parts is going to be next to impossible, finding parts for movements that were made by the New York Standard Watch Company is VERY DIFFICULT ! ! ! !
Plus, you can't do a simple movement swap out or I would ! ! !
This size 12s Crown movement is different than a size 12s movement made by companies like Elgin, Illinois and Waltham.
Even though they are all size 12s they are NOT the exact same size, the plates have different shapes.
It's kind of like a size 3/0s Elgin when compared to a size 3/0s Hampden, both are a size 3/0s but you can't put an Elgin size 3/0s into a silverine Dueber size 3/0s case, it simply will not fit!
I will shelf this BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watch project for the time being until something can be figured out or a donor movement can be found.
But, we now know for a FACT that these BEHEMOTH size 12s American Trench Watches do exist and that is the most important thing ! ! ! !
There has been speculation for many years when it comes to the BEHEMOTH size 12s American Trench Watches...........................where any of them actually made ? ? ?
We can now put all speculation to rest................................they do in FACT exist ! ! ! !
But, it's not an Elgin, Waltham or Illinois that has been located, it's a CROWN.
Sold under the name "Crown Watch Company" but was actually made by the New York Standard Watch Company in New Jersey.
The New York Standard Watch Company was owned by the Keystone Watch Case Company who also owned the Philadelphia Watch Case Company and the case maker Bates & Bacon (B&B).
Yes, this will get a bit confusing, I had to re-read all of my research several times to get a grip on all of this.
During the Great War era Keystone was was constantly being sued by the United States government and other watch case manufacturers.
A lot of these suits had to do with the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, illegal monopolies and such.
Keystone was sued over the use of the name "Crown Watch Company", because this company really did not exist it was simply a shell name under the Keystone umbrella.
Maybe Keystone did this in an attempt to avoid further prosecution under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890 ? ? ?
Anyway, movements that were stamped with the Crown Watch Company name during the Great War era were cased in cases made by the Philadelphia Watch Case Company.
I have been able to locate 4 advertisements stating that the BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watches did exist but I have never actually held one in my hand................. that is until yesterday.
All four of these adverts were for the Illinois Watch Case Company, none were from any company owned by Keystone like Philadelphia.
Below are the four 12s trench watch advertisements.
Take a look at the advert just above, the square case at the bottom right of the advert.
About a year ago I did in fact see one of these Illinois size 12s square trench watch cases but at the time I did not know what it was so I unfortunately took a pass.
Still beating myself up over this one to this very day, I should have pulled the trigger and bought that watch ! ! ! ! ! ! !
If you study the above four adverts you will notice something very strange.......................none of the adverts state that Illinois makes a GIANT size 6s trench watch case!
But, in fact they did make them, I've had no less than 10 of the size 6s cases made by the Illinois Watch Case Company.
I've had them in gold fill, solid nickel, sterling silver, semi-hermetic and with swivel lugs.
To the best of my knowledge the only companies that made GIANT size 6s trench watch cases were Bates & Bacon and Philadelphia (both owned by Keystone) and the Illinois Watch Case Company.
Size 6s cases that were made under the Philadelphia name were only made in "silverode" and cases made under the Bates & Bacon name were only made in gold fill using the case grade name "Royal".
The Illinois size 6s cases were made in gold fill, solid nickel and sterling silver.
The size 6s trench watch cases made by Philadelphia and Bates & Bacon were identical to each other in design and size because BOTH were owned by Keystone!
Which gets my to my point, up until now it was generally accepted that the GIANT size 6s trench watches were the biggest ones made because no BEHEMOTH size 12s examples have been found and documented.
Now, all four of these cases were made by companies owned by Keystone, the case designs are the same.
Starting from the far left: Philadelphia "silverode" size 3/0s, Philadelphia "silverode size 0s, Bates & Bacon 10k gold filled "Royal" size 6s and finally the Philadelphia 10k gold filled size 12s trench watch case on the far right.
In my opinion this picture is EPIC ! ! ! !
Four different sizes of the same trench watch case design ! ! ! !
Just so you can get a grasp on how big this size 12s trench watch is I photographed it next to a size 3/0s Elgin Trench Watch.
The size 3/0s measures 35mm lug to lug, 31.5mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
The BEHEMOTH size 12s Crown Trench Watch measures 53mm lug to lug, 47mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
And now here is a GIANT size 6s next to the BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watch.
The size 6s measures 42mm lug to lug, 38mm without the crown with a 16mm lug diameter.
The 6s looks tiny next to the 12s ! ! !
A few shots of the 12s Crown by itself, this case is semi-hermetic!
And now for some WRIST SHOTS ! ! !
Unfortunately this size 12s Crown Trench Watch is broken and in need of MANY new parts.
One of the pallet jewels is cracked and the roller jewel is also cracked.
It needs a special stem which I do not have too.
Finding these parts is going to be next to impossible, finding parts for movements that were made by the New York Standard Watch Company is VERY DIFFICULT ! ! ! !
Plus, you can't do a simple movement swap out or I would ! ! !
This size 12s Crown movement is different than a size 12s movement made by companies like Elgin, Illinois and Waltham.
Even though they are all size 12s they are NOT the exact same size, the plates have different shapes.
It's kind of like a size 3/0s Elgin when compared to a size 3/0s Hampden, both are a size 3/0s but you can't put an Elgin size 3/0s into a silverine Dueber size 3/0s case, it simply will not fit!
I will shelf this BEHEMOTH size 12s trench watch project for the time being until something can be figured out or a donor movement can be found.
But, we now know for a FACT that these BEHEMOTH size 12s American Trench Watches do exist and that is the most important thing ! ! ! !
