[gigfy]

I saw Eyal selling the Invicta Men's Ocean Ghost Mechanical Chronograph Watch on TV yesterday.

I did a google search and the model numbers are 4728, 4729, 4730, 4731, & 4732. The banner at the bottom of the TV screen read "Swiss Made". And this is what the website says 'Movement: Mechanical 1902'. World of Watches website says 'Movement: Japan 1902 mechanical chronograph, 22 jewels'.

Is this movement Swiss, Japanese, or Chinese? I got a reply back on another forum and they said it was a Technica Swiss Ebauche. And another that said that Invicta makes its own movements now.

I believe it is a Seagull ST1902 manual wind movement. This movement is one of the better Chinese movements, IMHO. I own a watch with a Seagull 1901 movement and it is rock solid and very accurate.

I couldn't find a picture of the display back on the Invicta but here is a picture of mine.

What really got to me was that Eyal was touting the sub dial at 6 o'clock and saying that they had specially designed this feature for this watch. It is an hour hand that mirrors the main hour hand. A common practice to give a watch the full '3 subdial' look. He was actually turning the crown to make the hour hand and the sub dial hour hand go around. Touting a useless subdial!! Gheeshh!

My ST1901 doesn't have the third subdial and I prefer it that way.

Cheers,
gigfy

 

[amwilliams9]

IMO for it to be a chronograph I like the look of the third subdial. It gives symetry to the look. Not everyone feels this way but that's why there are sooooo many brands and styles out there.

 

[banner]

He actually called it a "useless complication" as he was demonstrating the mirrored hour sub-dial, so I'm not quite sure he was touting it. He claimed that the movement will be used in another up-coming design where the hour hand has it's own sub-dial like some Citizen and Alpina models. He also said we use all "swiss parts" in our factory to produce this movement. I don't think anyone would confuse this as a Swiss Made watch, for Invicta would certainly emblazon the 6 with it if that was the case. Also, I certainly would not rely on the banner at the bottom of the screen for accurate information. It is wrong about half the time.

 

[gigfy]

He actually called it a "useless complication" as he was demonstrating the mirrored hour sub-dial, so I'm not quite sure he was touting it. He claimed that the movement will be used in another up-coming design where the hour hand has it's own sub-dial like some Citizen and Alpina models. He also said we use all "swiss parts" in our factory to produce this movement. I don't think anyone would confuse this as a Swiss Made watch, for Invicta would certainly emblazon the 6 with it if that was the case. Also, I certainly would not rely on the banner at the bottom of the screen for accurate information. It is wrong about half the time.

Oops!! :confused1: I was watching the kids and probably missed that subtle point.

No 'Swiss Made' on the dial so the banner was probably just an honest mistake. :sneaky2:

I don't have a problem with Invicta's or Chinese watches. The 8926 coin edge is what got me into the hobby. I guess I don't like the misrepresentation of (what I believe to be) a Chinese movement. The ST19XX is a copy of the old Swiss Venus 175, so it has Swiss origins. :001_rolleyes:

Cheers,
gigfy

 

[boscoe]

Asian. Or what The Lalo has called for years a "Swiss Parts Movement."
During his presentations, he usually gets so excited he just calls them a "Swiss Movement."
This happens many, many times.
But he's just excited and accidentally misspeaking.
That's his story and the story of the TV sidekicks who peddle his wares.

 

[banner]

Asian. Or what The Lalo has called for years a "Swiss Parts Movement."
During his presentations, he usually gets so excited he just calls them a "Swiss Movement."
This happens many, many times.
But he's just excited and accidentally misspeaking.
That's his story and the story of the TV sidekicks who peddle his wares.

You know Boscoe, I'm starting to come around a little bit to your perspective on this whole Eyal and Snbc thing. To the uninitiated, (and that word is very important) Getting confused or duped by Eyal or a host would be easy. Words like "Swiss Ebauche", "Swiss made movement" etc can be confusing. If they are doing it with malice, like I think you believe to be the case; it is totally unscrupulous. However, I have never had the opportunity to interrogate Eyal or JS so I don't know whether they have intent to defraud or not. For me, and I would assume you and most members here as well, I do my homework, I look at a six position for "made" "movt" or what have you. I have never felt duped by Eyal or snbc. I spend alot of time correcting them in my own head when I watch the show, and they ARE often wrong. However, Eyal is not the only guilty party. Lior Ben-Schmuel is often idolized on watch forums for his "stand up nature". However, he uses the term "100% Swiss Made Movement" when describing his Swiss Legend line. He makes language errors as well and has left out the "movement" descriptor on more than one occasion. I guess to bottom line this, it is irritating when Eyal gets stuff wrong, and I can see how you would be insensed by it. But again, we are smarter consumers and should not be fooled by him. Again, whether or not he is lying to us intentionally is hard to debate. This isn't a show cause hearing or grand jury.:001_smile:

 

[ProDiver]

I think what they mean when they refer to Swiss "whatever" is that the Asian watchmaker who assembles the watch had a third cousin who was once dating a person who knew a person that knew a real Swiss watchmaker from Switzerland. Even so, the majority of my watches are Invicta. No one here is being duped. I am sure we are all aware of what the guidelines are that allow the various brands to claim "Swiss Made",etc.:001_rolleyes:

 

[amwilliams9]

I just think when presenting a mix of watches during a one hour show, with Swiss Made, Swiss Movt, and other movements in no particular order can become confusing. Just imagine trying to present all of these watches giving all of the particulars. It can be tough. Also it's obvious that English is not Eyals first language. Having spent 5 years stationed in Germany and speaking German (when my first language is English) it's tough translating mentally between the languages. It is very easy to misspeak.

 

[Sebastian Torres]

I think what they mean when they refer to Swiss "whatever" is that the Asian watchmaker who assembles the watch had a third cousin who was once dating a person who knew a person that knew a real Swiss watchmaker from Switzerland. Even so, the majority of my watches are Invicta. No one here is being duped. I am sure we are all aware of what the guidelines are that allow the various brands to claim "Swiss Made",etc.:001_rolleyes:

What about the non-WIS, the people who watch the TV show and don't know much of watches, brands and movements?, and while watching that show perhaps hear the "swiss made words" and feel like buying some of those "swiss wathever" watches that Lalo and his partners are selling?

Shouldn't they deserve the right to be informed? Why not saying something like this for once and for all?: "This watch was assembled in Panamá, the bracelet comes from Taiwan, the movement is made in Switzerland, etc." I think that would be fair to the customer.

 

[Datsun240Z71]

Any good salesman's first initiative should be to know his product, and you can bet Eyal does.

As for English not being his first language... please!

Any misrepresentation is just plain wrong, and if not corrected, leads people to form an opinion that he is being somewhat deceptive on purpose, and the fact that this is recurring over and over sort of confirms it.

Caveat emptor.

 

[markdl]

I watched the show and Eyal never said the watch was Swiss made. He only said Swiss Technica. The only thing happening over and over is people trying to turn this guy into the boogeyman and not paying attention to what he actually says.
It's a beautiful watch and a beautiful movement at an excellent price. If you don't think so, and only want it if it's "pure Swiss", don't buy it. Tim Temple is selling Gevril for the people who care about such things.

 

[GradyPhilpott]

Everyone misspeaks, but it is imcumbent on the speaker to correct his errors.

Integrity in the market place is important and I believe that truth in advertising has the force of law behind it.

I'm not going to get on the bash Eyal or Invicta bandwagon, but consistently misrepresenting a product is a substantial issue.

I am reminded of this quote:

"Advertising is the modern substitute for argument; its function is to make the worse appear the better."--George Santayana (1863 - 1952)

 

[gigfy]

recent conversation with Mr. Lalo

Well, I don't want to drudge up old arguments, but I have had a very interesting conversation with Mr. Lalo himself and this is what he told me about the Technica Swiss Ebauche mechanical chronograph movement.

He said that the movement is assembled in Korea. Invicta outsources some labor from Seagull employees and also source some parts from Seagull. The assembly is managed by a team of Swiss watchmakers. He also indicated that they are seeing better performance from their movements and are able to extend this value to the customer.

There you have it. I'm satisfied with the answers. What do you think?

Cheers,
gigfy

 

[banner]

Well, I don't want to drudge up old arguments, but I have had a very interesting conversation with Mr. Lalo himself and this is what he told me about the Technica Swiss Ebauche mechanical chronograph movement.

He said that the movement is assembled in Korea. Invicta outsources some labor from Seagull employees and also source some parts from Seagull. The assembly is managed by a team of Swiss watchmakers. He also indicated that they are seeing better performance from their movements and are able to extend this value to the customer.

There you have it. I'm satisfied with the answers. What do you think?

Cheers,
gigfy

Pretty interesting post, considering the fact that you bragged on WUS about how fun it is to stir up trouble over here.:001_rolleyes:

 

[gigfy]

hold on there....

Pretty interesting post, considering the fact that you bragged on WUS about how fun it is to stir up trouble over here.:001_rolleyes:

When did I brag? I may have commented on how others stirred the pot but here is what I said and meant.

"I didn't really mean to but seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest with my observation & comments."

I posted the same info on BDWF, WTF, & WUS. There was more bickering on some forums that others but after it started, I stayed out of it. I only wanted more info on the movement. I got the answers from the source and am satisfied.

I can't say I wasn't interested in the comments. It was sort of like a car wreck where you can't look away. But I didn't expect it. Next time I'll be a little more careful choosing my words if I suspect foul play.

Cheers,
gigfy

 

[Houdini]

Well, I don't want to drudge up old arguments, but I have had a very interesting conversation with Mr. Lalo himself and this is what he told me about the Technica Swiss Ebauche mechanical chronograph movement.

He said that the movement is assembled in Korea. Invicta outsources some labor from Seagull employees and also source some parts from Seagull. The assembly is managed by a team of Swiss watchmakers. He also indicated that they are seeing better performance from their movements and are able to extend this value to the customer.

There you have it. I'm satisfied with the answers. What do you think?

Cheers,
gigfy

assembled in South Korea or North Korea??? :lol::001_tt2::lol:

 

[wilfreb]

isn't the technica factory located in japan?

 

[newmedia]

South Korea.,I believed its called Technica French Ebauche company or similar

 

[Datsun240Z71]

South Korea.,I believed its called Technica French Ebauche company or similar

It's Technica Swiss Ebauche Microtenique.
I recall Jim Skelton saying they were produced in Japan, but if Lalo says Korea, I guess he's know best, although with Invicta, can anyone really say for sure?

I do think constantly referring to and using the the word Swiss does create confusion, and is a somewhat questionable marketing tactic. Some have said that some of the parts are sourced out of Switzerland for assembly in ?

Caveat emptor.

 

[two21b]

The term "far east" is often thrown out there to confuse the issue. I actullay think I read somewhere it is China, but I can't find a link.