WATCH TALK FORUMS banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I hope someone here can help me out. I am in the U.K and have just bought my first Hamilton from an authorised U.K retailer.
It is the Ventura model number : H24411732. I have a few questions about my watch and Venturas in general.
My watch does not have any crystals on the face or lugs, however on the Hamilton site when i searched for my model (H24411732) it shows the Ventura with crystals despite their catalogue showing the watch (H24411732) without them. Could anyone explain why this might be?
Also on my back plate I expected to find the model number engraved but instead it has H244110. Is this usual?
I apologise for the questions but I hope someone could shed some light on this.
Also is there a thread which details the different models/year of make of each Ventura Hamilton have produced?

Thank you

Dave
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,687 Posts
Dave,

You are likely in luck. There are a couple of people active here who know more about the Venturaand other Hamilton's than anyone else. I think a good place to start would be for you to show a photo of the front and back of your new Ventura. WELCOME!

Regards,

Rick
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for that,

I've attached pictures as recommended. My Ventura is the one without the crystals and the has the same back as pictured. I believe it is model no. H24411732.
However on the Hamilton site, a search for model no. H24411732 shows a picture of the watch with crystals.
Im starting to think that this is a mistake on the site, as Hamiltons online brochure actually shows my watch (without crystals) with the H24411732 model no. beside it!
This is confusing!!!

nb. to further add to the confusion, the back plate has the no. H244110 and not H24411732 as i would have expected.


WATCH FRONT.jpg WATCH FRONT.jpg H24411732 back.jpg 30710_1.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,055 Posts
One thought I would offer is to go to another retailer and ask to see the same model and then compare the backs, etc. to yours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
One thought I would offer is to go to another retailer and ask to see the same model and then compare the backs, etc. to yours.
Hi there,

Thanks for the response but I'm in N.Ireland and no other retailer sells this particular Ventura!! unbelievable I know! I had to order via a retailer in London.

The retailer I used is authorised to sell Hamiltons (I checked this out on Hamiltons site) so I'm not really doubting if it's genuine (although there is a niggle at the back of my mind).

I guess I was just wondering why Hamilton themselves are showing two different types of Venturas with the same model numbers (comparing their brochure with their website).

Regarding the number on the back plate, I'm not sure why it would have H244110 engraved instead of the actual model no. H24411732.

thanks

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think Im getting closer to solving this mystery! After a phone call, It may just be that Hamilton have put the wrong picture on their website.

Also could it be that the H244110 on the back plate of the watch is a generic number for Ventura back plates and therefore different models of Venturas would all have this H244110 regardless of their model number?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
You are correct about the case number. Hamilton's numbering system is complicated. (The same format is used for all Swatch Group brands.) H stands for Hamilton, of course. The first two numbers designate the model: 24 = Ventura. The next number indicates the size: 4 = "Gents standard". Then the case finish: 1 = steel. After that the movement type: 1 = quartz. Then the attachment (type of strap or band), then dial color, and lastly type of markers on the dial. The basic case would be the same regardless of strap type, dial color, or marker design so the case reference number on the back only gives the numbers relevant to the case, which is interchangeable with other variations. The catalog number includes the variables.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you very much for your reply. So the number H244110 on the back of my Ventura is legitimate.

H=HAMILTON
24=Ventura
4=Gents standard
1=Steel
1=Quartz
0=?

sorry for my ignorance but should it also have numbers representing the strap, dial colour and markers?

thank you

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
Welcome to the Ventura club! IMHO (as I own 4 of them) you now own what I consider to be the coolest watch ever designed.

If my memory serves me correct, I have never seen a modern Hamilton whose case back number matched up with the catalog model number. I'm wearing my Elvis anniversary model today, and nowhere does the official full catalog model number appear. Same for my other three. I went through this same confusion early on, but eventually stopped wondering once I found it to be the norm. I am confident you have the real deal on your wrist.

As to info on all the Venturas produced over the years, I don't think we have a thread on that topic. What I can tell you is that the reissue Venturas first appeared in the late 1980s and there were three versions available (just like the original offerings that appeared in 1957), and all with gold plating. There was the yellow gold with black dial, yellow gold with silver dial, and white gold with black dial (which I bought one of in 1992). All three of these versions were available throughout the 1990s and maybe into the early 2000s when they stopped making yellow gold versions. At some point during this time (late 90s - early 2000s) they switched to stainless steel rather than white gold plating. This was actually a good thing IMO because their gold plating tended to flake/chip with wear. However, I still think my white gold plated Ventura has a more luxurious sheen to it than my stainless model.

During the 2000s Hamilton offered some variations to the standard stainless with black dial, none of which resembled the originals. These included one with a white dial and charcoal hour dots, a skeleton auto, and the diamond chipped version you speak of. A year or so ago they introduced the Elvis models for the anniversary of "The King's" 75th birthday. Elvis bought a white gold/black dial Ventura in the mid 60s (1965 I think) and had a stainless or white gold expansion bracelet put on it. He also wore a Ventura (yellow gold and black, I believe) in his 1961 movie Blue Hawaii. These 75th anniversary models are still available and are shown in the catalog. One other famous person who wore a Ventura is Rod Serling, the creator and host of The Twilight Zone. Serling had a a yellow gold with silver dial.

Not sure if this info is of any help or interest to you, but I just love this particular Hamilton model. May you wear yours in good health for many years to come!

P.S. The member named Hamilton Electric (aka Rene Rondeau) is by far the most authoritative expert on these watches, so anything he says is spot on (unless he makes a typo :lol:). If you love the Ventura as much as some of us do you might consider purchasing his excellent book "The Watch of the Future." Not only will you learn a ton, but it is full of beautiful photos of these super cool watches. It is well worth the price (which is very reasonable I must add)! :thumbup1:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,687 Posts
Dave,

BlueHawaii is VERY correct about Rene Rondeau AKA HamiltonElectric being THE recognized expert on Hamilton electrics. With risk of embarassing Rene, having him answer your question is a bit like having a symposium of Howard Carter, Zahi Hawass, and Hassan Ragab answer a question about King Tut. :lol:

If you like the Ventura's design, I also suggest that you get Rene's book and consider an original Hamilton Electric (Ventura or otherwise) before you spend a similar amount of money getting 4 modern variations of the wonderful original. :thumbup1:

Regards,

Rick

PS: One interesting note, based on the response of others when I wear my original Ventura, the Ventura's design is arguably the most timeless of all Hamilton watches. Interestingly, while I own well over 100 old watches, it is my 12 year old son's favorite watch also. In fact, he has been telling me for a few years that he wants a modern skeletonized automatic Ventura as his high school graduation gift. :biggrin: By then I might need to call Rene to help me locate one...
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
507 Posts
sorry for my ignorance but should it also have numbers representing the strap, dial colour and markers?
No, the strap, dial and markers are not indicated on the case reference because the same case can be used with all the different dial and strap options. The purpose of the case reference code is to make it easy for watchmakers to order case parts. In this situation the only parts that matter are the bezel, back, and crystal. For that, the listed numbers are meaningful. Marking the case with the type of strap would open up a logistical nightmare since they'd have to stock the same case under several different numbers only to cover strap and dial options, when the same case is interchangeable with other straps and dials. The zero at the end of the case reference number is a period of sorts, making it clear that it's not the same as the catalog number for the complete watch. It refers only to the case.

Adding to BlueHawaii's comments on earlier versions of the reissued Ventura, the 1988 release also included a rose gold with black dial version.

The various dial options changed through the 90s, not all were available at the same time. The black (actually matte 'charcoal') dial with yellow was dropped fairly early, leaving only silver dial with the yellow case. Later the yellow was dropped completely, as was the rose.

There were several other changes along the way. The very first reissues had a snap-off back made of gold-plated base metal, with a round stainless piece in the center of the back. This back did not hold up well. After snapping off and back on a number of times it no longer holds anymore. It eventually becomes impossible to close it, rendering the watch unwearable. One other serious problem is that many watchmakers or owners failed to notice the small arrow with "open" point to the edge where it should be snapped open. Instead, they figured the stainless disk on the back should come off to access the battery. That resulted in a lot of seriously damaged watches as people would aggressively pry off that disk, which was then not replaceable anymore.

They changed to a back held in place with 3 screws. That solved the snap-on problem but not the wear issue: they were extremely prone to wearing out along the edges. And some people ignored the screws and continued to pry off the stainless disk, ruining the back.

In the mid-late 90s they changed the back to a thin all-stainless one, with no domed center as on earlier ones. That was much less prone to wear or damage, but the bezel still tended to wear or flake.

It was right around 2000 that they went to all-stainless, which was a huge improvement. At that time they changed the dial from domed to flat, sitting lower in the case.

The more recent Anniversary and Elvis editions have completely redesigned cases that are much closer to the original in shape, and also have domed dials more like the original. They look more authentic than the 'standard' Ventura reissue.

Parts for any of the 1990s Venturas are no longer available, and aside from the hands there are no parts that interchange from modern Venturas to any of the older incarnations. Restoring a worn or damaged 1990s Ventura has become impossible. Not even crystals can be obtained anymore.

EDIT: Here's a picture of the back of a rose Ventura I bought in 1988. You can see the faint "OPEN" at the lower right. Most people just pried on the center disk until they'd finally break it off. Or, if not manage to remove it, at least to gouge the back so horrifically that it was pretty much ruined.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Wow! I wasn't expecting such detailed responses when I started this thread. Thank you all! You have certainly put my mind at ease, and made me want to collect these watches even more!! I really would like to get my hands on "the watch of the future". Where would I be able to purchase it?

Also if any of you have time, could you perhaps take a look at the Hamilton website and look at the gents venturas. Is my thinking correct that they have the wrong image for model number H24411732 i.e it's actually showing model no. H24461732.

Thank you again,

Dave

P.s forgot to ask if you know the year my Ventura h24411732 was released?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
EDIT: Here's a picture of the back of a rose Ventura I bought in 1988. You can see the faint "OPEN" at the lower right. Most people just pried on the center disk until they'd finally break it off. Or, if not manage to remove it, at least to gouge the back so horrifically that it was pretty much ruined.

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

Wow. I admit to having done some foolish things with my watches and clocks in the past, but reading this makes me feel smart! And the fact that actual watchmakers tried removing the center disk...:confused1:

Anyhoo, great info as always from Rene. If you want his book just google his name and his website will pop right up. It is an awesome book.

Also, just as a warning to anyone here who might be looking for a yellow gold plated reissue, there is one currently listed on ebay that is very worrisome based on what Rene has reported about crystal replacement. The auction number is 150527395658 and the crystal is smashed. Seller says this can be replaced inexpensively, but I would be very leery! My watchmaker has essentially reiterated the same info provided by Rene about the reissue crystals; i.e. nearly impossible to find. Also, I agree that the early pry-off backs are terrible. If you go looking for a yellow gold plated version look for one with screws. It won't solve the wear problem, but at least battery changes won't be as big of a nail biter!

P.S. Hadn't looked at it for some time, but the current Hamilton website is very user-unfriendly. It seems incomplete and has poor navigation. I did not look for the various model numbers, but I would not be surprised if an incorrect image is shown. I would forget about the website and just enjoy that Ventura. It is an awesome design, and as someone else said, it does get noticed by people. I have gotten numerous compliments when wearing mine over the years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I am certainly looking forward to wearing it, although I have to wait until Christmas Day! Had to put the box away to avoid temptation!!! :).
It's been good reading up on the venturas, I am a complete novice but was drawn to the Ventura because of it's look alone.
I have been wondering if the remodel ventura that was available in the 1990s (base metal one) is the same size as the current stainless steel one? It's actually a smaller watch than I had imagined. (I had only ever seen pictures until mine arrived!!) but this is a good thing for my smaller wrists!
Any thoughts on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
I have been wondering if the remodel ventura that was available in the 1990s (base metal one) is the same size as the current stainless steel one? It's actually a smaller watch than I had imagined. (I had only ever seen pictures until mine arrived!!) but this is a good thing for my smaller wrists!
Any thoughts on this?
I have never measured them, but I do believe my Elvis anniversary Ventura is slightly larger than my gold plated versions from the 90s. The Elvis model has sharper edges and it seems like it sits taller on the wrist. From the side the lugs definitely have a taller profile, and the strap size is 18mm vs. 17mm on the older ones (as well as the original electrics).

Whether or not there is any material difference in case sizes, the newer Venturas certainly seem to look bigger on the wrist. At least in my opinion. I think this is due to a slightly wider and flatter bezel, as well as the strap width. The 90s versions have bezels that are slightly convex (if that makes sense) and had softer edges. I personally prefer them to my Elvis model, but as Rene mentioned these newer reissues are much closer to the originals in terms of design. Best of luck waiting to open your Ventura "gift." I don't know if I could hold out until the holiday! :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
BlueHawaii,

So when are you going to take the plunge and put an original Ventura under your Christmas tree?? :thumbup1:
I wish I could say three weeks from now, but I bought a new Omega this summer so my watch budget is pretty much shot for the time being. :sad:

Maybe next year I'll try to soften up the wife in hopes of getting a Pacer from Rene. After the Omega I'm not sure I could sway her into the price range of the solid gold Ventura....that is unless you would like to play Santa and drop a Ventura off at my house. I'm pretty sure I'm still on the "Nice" kids list! :biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
For Mr. Tetley: here are some photos of my various Ventura reissues. Hopefully they will give you an idea of the slight differences in case size/shape over the past 20 or so years. As I said, the changes were very subtle, but I can definitely tell when wearing them.

1992 White gold plate


Mid to late 90s yellow gold plate


2009 Elvis anniversary model in steel (note the wider and flatter bezel)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Ok, I'm a few months late but I've been looking at venturas on and off for years and never taken the plunge. I've always been after the original but im an omega monster so can't really afford an original Ventura. I eventually found they did a 1957 electric re issue (I think that's right) so tried to hunt one down and got confused with model numbers. To be honest it was the dealers who caused the confusion as they were using various websites that seemed to have differing photos on them and their stock numbers werent matching up very well. Cutting a long story short I decided to re start my Ventura quest and found any Ventura apart from the xxl which I don't like, was hard to get. I found a dealer who had one in a store in Ireland but "can get it for you if you want to take a look". Being brave and reckless I ordered it. Im really pleased with it but the case number has confused me a bit. Its h244510 and not 410. From what I know the watch is 24 (gents) 4 (large) 4 steel etc so why does mine have a 5? Im really pleased with it anyway and it's a lovely curved case etc. It was reduced too as they didn't have any stock numbers to sell across their stores so it had been sat in a box for ages apparently. If anyone can shed some light that would be great. Thanks in advance for any info
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top