WATCH TALK FORUMS banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Whether or not she would have been any improvement over Musharraf we will never know, but at least she was willing to take the chance knowing full well her life was in danger since she stepped back into Pakistan.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,318510,00.html

It's a shame that this part of the world still hasn't caught up with the times and believes the best way to deal with opponents is by killing them. Naturally, the usual suspects are taking credit for the murder.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1710322437
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
I picked up the news of the blast but at that stage there wasn't any word on her so I assumed all was well/ Not so within the hour.

I feel sad since I have recollection of her being the first lady PM of a Muslim country. She graduated in England so in some way I feel a sense of joy in her achievements. She certainly looked to be the likely and popular leader of Pakistan and one who was brave enough and determined to do something about putting right the years when democracy was not on the political agenda of her nation.

At this moment and amidst the sadness, I can only hope that the will of the nation to make it a better place for future generations may be even stronger by her demise.


Rest in Peace Benazir

Houston
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,102 Posts
This paragraph suggests that either she was extremely unlucky or the plot against her involved so many actors that they were able to take advantage of any slip-up that might have occurred along the way. It almost defies belief.

Bhutto, 54, was leaving the rally in her bulletproof vehicle when she asked that the rooftop hatch be opened so she could bid supporters farewell, aides who were with her said. She leaned her head through the hatch, and several gunshots rang out, an aide seated next to her said. Just as Bhutto sank into her seat, a large bomb detonated outside the vehicle. The left side of Bhutto's face was badly bloodied, aides said, but it was not clear whether she'd been hit by bullets or shrapnel from the bombing. She lost consciousness, and never regained it.

http://tinyurl.com/yuuokk
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
She was apparently shot in the neck and then the assassin detonated his own bomb.

What kind of coward shoots a woman?


Houston
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
What I've heard so far is that Al Qaeda probably didn't have anything to do with this because their MO is terror, not political assassinations, but nothing can be ruled out so far. Experts think that they are taking credit just to bolster their reputation right now. Al Qaeda may have been involved, but only indirectly through the Taliban, but mostly like it was carried out by sympathizers in the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence group. Apparently they have had her number since she returned to Pakistan. Still, at this point it's a guessing game.

Also, apparently Pakistan's nukes aren't much of a concern at this time. I've heard that they do not have or keep any fully assembled weapons and that the components are dispersed throughout the country with roughly only two people knowing where all the different locations are. According to the expert I heard these two people present absolutely no threat. Although I'm sure we've hrard that line before.

It will be interesting to see who and what shakes out of this.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
Well I'm still saddened by what has happened. I guess I never really expected this to occur despite the threats and dangers of being out there.

What is significant though is that unless an able and like-minded successor is found this may be the last hope for a stable, peaceful and harmonious society in Pakistan and the region.

I think that her words has shown what she was prepared to do or sacrifice for a better future for her people.

Benazir Bhutto in her own words -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7162403.stm




ZIN
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
A sad day

I don't know if they (Al Qaeda) had anything to do with it or not but Al Qaeda has in fact taken part in many assassinations. Or, put another way, executions of those that do not follow their strict, narrow interpretation of Islam. It does play to them that a woman not become a leader of a country that the population is mostly Islamic. Not to mention a woman that is anti-Al Qaeda.

I have a great fear of the turmoil that is currently going on in a nuclear power.

This assassination is a setback for the free world. And, she should be greatly honored for her accomplishments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,752 Posts
She's being elevated to sainthood - as is common with many politicians who meet violent ends.
But here are the very real questions that need to be considered:

1) Where did she get the money to build the mini Taj Mahal that houses her dead fathers and brothers and now her? Her father was a savage despot who plundered his people - and paid the price at the hands of other SOBs.
2) How does her family afford to live in Dubai?
3) Did she really want to help her people or was it all about power?
4) Why did she name herself "chairman for life" of her political party?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
Somehow I just can't hep feeling it might be a little nice to speak well of the dearly departed or at least see good in others although of course journalists make their own rules. It's not as though they are pure as the driven snow. Who after all is? Try reading the comments about people who knew her and you'll see a different picture than the one you're attempting to paint. The link I posted above should at least give one some idea of what she was about. Then again, there are those who would probably choose to pour scorn on that anyway. The people whom she was seeking to represent appear to think different. Some journalists however would have us believe they know better.

Still though, she's gone and why choose to spoil the occasion of others seeking to pay their respects?


Be well now


ZIN
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,102 Posts
The more I think about this the more it makes me angry that this woman would create such an international stir and then in a moment of utter egocentrism stick her head out of her bullet-proof car and to get killed.

Now her entire country is in flames, people are acting like animals and people are dying because she lacked the judgement to take cover.

You can't tell me that this person had the judgement and the presence of mind to run a country.

She reminds me of Moses smiting the stone.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
How egocentric is it to wave to her supporters Grady? As egocentric as JFK riding in an open-topped car? Surely not. Neither of them asked to be killed. And her country was in turmoil before she returned though her return sparked hope amongst many.

FYI I wasn't having a dig at JFK, I have supported both. May I please refer you to the link I posted above. If her words do not convince you, then nothing will. In that event, please feel free to exercise your own convictions


Regards

Houston
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,102 Posts
JFK asked that the bullet-proof bubble for his car not be installed for his motorcade through Dallas.

In both cases, extremely poor judgement was exercised and the damage to our nation was immeasurable, as I'm sure it will be for Pakistan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,518 Posts
She's being elevated to sainthood - as is common with many politicians who meet violent ends.
But here are the very real questions that need to be considered:

1) Where did she get the money to build the mini Taj Mahal that houses her dead fathers and brothers and now her? Her father was a savage despot who plundered his people - and paid the price at the hands of other SOBs.
2) How does her family afford to live in Dubai?
3) Did she really want to help her people or was it all about power?
4) Why did she name herself "chairman for life" of her political party?
Boscoe, You missed a few questions. She went to Harvard and Oxford and was not an average joe(or "jane") by any means. She was born into a "prominant family" from what I have been able to read.

Here is the Wiki article on her. She was probably less corrupt than most politicians. I cant help to think of the billions of US dollars missing in Iraq that was to go to roads, schools, and training the military.

I do think she cared about her country, afterall, she had enough money to stay out of harm's way but went back because she believes in Pakistan. In the end, her life ended before we will ever know if Pakistan would be a better country with her as prime minister.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto

Pakistani politics are a little more complicated than hanging chads and dimpled ballets. Let us not forget.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,752 Posts
Somehow I just can't hep feeling it might be a little nice to speak well of the dearly departed or at least see good in others although of course journalists make their own rules. It's not as though they are pure as the driven snow. Who after all is? Try reading the comments about people who knew her and you'll see a different picture than the one you're attempting to paint. The link I posted above should at least give one some idea of what she was about. Then again, there are those who would probably choose to pour scorn on that anyway. The people whom she was seeking to represent appear to think different. Some journalists however would have us believe they know better.

Still though, she's gone and why choose to spoil the occasion of others seeking to pay their respects?

I agree Zin journalists do make their own rules. And we are a contrary lot generally cursed to say the things people don't want to hear - because we are often better informed than most (because that's our job, not cause we're smarter).
But remember, there is also a chorus in the media elevating this woman to sainthood. Nothing is quite that simple.
Critical analysis - which is different than criticism - is essential in any situation. Asking questions isn't a bad thing. It's the only way to arrive at a valid conclusion, in my opinion.

I'm sure she loved her country - and I'm sure she loved power, if only because it provided a tool to change things. Perhaps I'm a bit too cynical because I have been on the inside of this stuff. I know no one is a saint or a total sinner. Official biographies are fluff. I know because I have been paid to write them at one point in my career.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
Asking questions is fine but your initial line of questioning is, I'm sure you'll agree quite different from the more conciliatory tone of your above post.

Fluff exists in all forms

Nevertheless she's gone. Did it ever occur to you Dan that at this time of sadness it might have been nice not to rake up the muck.


Be well


ZIN
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,752 Posts
My tone wasn't conciliatory, Zin.
We have a different idea of raking up the muck.
To me spouting "Power to the People" while building a multi-million-dollar mini Taj to bury four or five dead folks as your people live in grinding poverty, might be the height of hypocricy. The question should be addressed - or at least considered - as one prepares canonization.
If asking that questions qualifies as muck raking, I plead guility. But I would also note the beatification process routinely questions the miracles attributed to candidates for sainthood. Is that muck raking? Or simply being thorough?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
18,140 Posts
It's obvious you feel the need to be a journalist irrespective of the needs of others at this time of loss.

That's your privilege.

You may wish to consider though that there are times when it might be better not to say anything if one indeed does not have anything good to say.

If the people of Pakistan or indeed anyone else, chooses to honour her it's surely their right.

If you'll excuse me, I'm through with this unnecessary and distracting debate.


Houston
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top