[GETS]

Hi everyone,

I wondered of you could all help me with something?

Firstly I think it's important to admit that when I start a thread here I often replicate the same thread on one or two other forums in order to garner more opinion. On this occasion I am not doing so because any topic surrounding ETA is so incendiary that I can only trust this to a forum that won't get embroiled in ETA "hating" and fan boys of one description or another. In other words - as sycophantic as this might sound - I trust I'll get some unbiased and serious answers on here.

My question is around the ethics of ETA or the accuracy of them (I have no issue on that score - if other readers do then that's up to them and it is not the point of this thread). My query is around watches with the same ETA movement by different manufacturers.

Let's take the Valjoux 7750 Movement. I have an IWC Portuguese Chronograph that I purchased a few years ago. This has the Valjoux 7750 Movement which is still remarkably accurate after 5 years (less than 3 seconds per day deviance). However how do I justify the cost of this watch (currently about £5,900) against a watch with the same movement from another manufacturer that might be less than half the price? What is the difference IWC makes to this movement (I know they are very, very secretive) to justify the 100% uplift in MSRP?

So to be clear: I have no issue with the movement and the whole inhouse versus ETA rant that go on. I'm more interested in what the manufacturers do to justify the huge difference between a Valjoux 7750 with an MSRP of £5,000, versus a Valjoux 7750 with a MSRP of £2,000.

PS - Finishing can't always be the answer as my IWC Portuguese Chronograph has a solid caseback!

An education would be appreciated.

Regards,

 

[~tc~]

As in all luxury items, the biggest thing is the name on the dial. Is Rolex really that much better to charge the prices they do? Not really, but (que Van Halen) "everybody wants one, you want one too".

In this specific case, in addition to the name, IWC does perform (or has ETA perform) some modifications - the value of which would take someone more technical than me to explain if they really make a difference, but I find it VERY hard to justify buying the IWC instead of the Hamilton that looks so similar (better IMHO, especially the pushers).

I'm really on the fence with my IWC - my ETA Ball watches are more accurate, but **** the IWC movement looks nice.

 

[GETS]

I'm really on the fence with my IWC - my ETA Ball watches are more accurate, but **** the IWC movement looks nice.

But with my IWC I can't even see the movement.....

 

[Watchbreath]

Like Thomas Prescher and Peter Speake-Marin using the 2824?

 

[GETS]

Like Thomas Prescher and Peter Speake-Marin using the 2824?

Congratulations. Your apparent need to show off your extensive in depth knowledge of watches knows no bounds. Now if you would like to contribute to the thread (as opposed to your ego) then that would be great.

Regards,

 

[Watchbreath]

:laugh: My knowledge is not all that extensive.

Congratulations. Your apparent need to show off your extensive in depth knowledge of watches knows no bounds. Now if you would like to contribute to the thread (as opposed to your ego) then that would be great.

Regards,

 

[huntershooter]

There was a thread a few years back that described specifically what IWC does as far as changes to their ETA provided movements.
Those changes/embellishments were substantial. Analogous to a motor in a Chevy "Impala" one buys at the local car dealer, and the same basic Chevy motor (block) in a Nascar racer. This is an exaggeration, but you get the idea.
There is also the issue of the IWC name; which one will pay a premium for.
Rolex used to use a base Zenith "El Primero" movement in it's "Yacht Master". In their case they took an outstanding movement and as Lou S. so eloquently put it, "dumbed it down", slowing the beat rate and whatever else they did. Rolex didn't discount this watch because it had a mere "El Primero" base movement-I assume because it said "Rolex" on the dial.
A final note; I have had my IWC "Flierchrono" apart adjusting the timing. The movement is very well finished.

 

[GETS]

There was a thread a few years back that described specifically what IWC does as far as changes to their ETA provided movements.
Those changes/embellishments were substantial. Analogous to a motor in a Chevy "Impala" one buys at the local car dealer, and the same basic Chevy motor (block) in a Nascar racer. This is an exaggeration, but you get the idea.
There is also the issue of the IWC name; which one will pay a premium for.
Rolex used to use a base Zenith "El Primero" movement in it's "Yacht Master". In their case they took an outstanding movement and as Lou S. so eloquently put it, "dumbed it down", slowing the beat rate and whatever else they did. Rolex didn't discount this watch because it had a mere "El Primero" base movement-I assume because it said "Rolex" on the dial.
A final note; I have had my IWC "Flierchrono" apart adjusting the timing. The movement is very well finished.

Thank you. I'm not specifically interested in the IWC justification but that was good nonetheless.

I suppose I'm more interested in (macro terms) if a watch with the same ebauche or ETA movement can be justified in terms of price when brand A sells the same innards as brand B - and then the crux is why is it justified (worth it)?

 

[Stevonz]

I own 3 watches with 7750 movements. The Mido uses the Top grade and runs at about +4 per day. The IWC uses who knows??. :lol: but runs at about +3 per day. The Speedmaster has the COSC movement and is the most accurate at +2 per day.
All watches claim enhancements to the movement, I think in the Mido they are mainly decorative, as you mention IWC are very secretive about their enhancements and the Speedie changes are also mainly decorative I think.
I find all watches very reliable and beautifully finished. Is the IWC worth the high price? Yes, design and finish are outstanding. I also really like the pusher design.

Graphic summarising the 3 main types of 7750 which may help.

 

[~tc~]

Rolex used to use a base Zenith "El Primero" movement in it's "Yacht Master". In their case they took an outstanding movement and as Lou S. so eloquently put it, "dumbed it down", slowing the beat rate and whatever else they did. Rolex didn't discount this watch because it had a mere "El Primero" base movement-I assume because it said "Rolex" on the dial.

It was the Daytona, not the Yacht Master. Currently, El Primero based Daytonas are holding higher prices among collectors than the Rolex based counterparts.

 

[~tc~]

The referenced article:
Movement in IWC Portuguese Chrono

 

[9pm]

It's all artwork.........

Hi Gets,

I was lookin for the same answers you will a few weeks back. The Best was from Dennis, Its like art. Why people pay
millions for Monet.

When I first started on this forum Dennis compare his Valjoux 7750 Breitling to my Invicta 7750. I told him I'm a person that buys movement not brand. The only big different I see justify payin more for is accuracy. The Breitling 7750 is COSC grade.

IMO, its just marketing. Watch is a jewelry you wear to make yourself feel good, proud of. Life pretty boring without luxury items. :cool1:

 

[ulackfocus]

There are different grades of ETA movements:

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/general-discussion-forum/48697.htm

Some companies do improve them from there as tc mentioned with IWC. Here's some more info on that:

http://www.watchtalkforums.info/forums/general-discussion-forum/49600.htm#post446963

If you get a chance, search the same threads on WUS and read through the threads there. Many more replies, some of them actually educated from the old timers.

 

[ivan1998]

Like Thomas Prescher and Peter Speake-Marin using the 2824?

No Peter has his own movements

 

[huntershooter]

It was the Daytona, not the Yacht Master. Currently, El Primero based Daytonas are holding higher prices among collectors than the Rolex based counterparts.

You're absolutely right, I stand corrected.

T

 

[Watchbreath]

Then it is a very recent change, change out the specs at Jackson Square Jewelers, there're an AD.

No Peter has his own movements

 

[ivan1998]

Then it is a very recent change, change out the specs at Jackson Square Jewelers, there're an AD.

Here the link on the movement Basel news: new Speake-Marin in-house movement SM2 | Monochrome Watches 09 release in 2009. I'm just a big Independent Watchmaker fan.

 

[Nicko16]

Here the link on the movement Basel news: new Speake-Marin in-house movement SM2 | Monochrome Watches 09 release in 2009. I'm just a big Independent Watchmaker fan.

Thats true for a couple of Peter's watches, now he uses movements from a company called Technotime.

As for the ETA movements, I would agree the price difference can be ridiculous. That been said I would buy the new Tudor even though it uses an ETA.

 

[Watchbreath]

Technotime was in the news a lot a few years back, then quiet.

Thats true for a couple of Peter's watches, now he uses movements from a company called Technotime.

As for the ETA movements, I would agree the price difference can be ridiculous. That been said I would buy the new Tudor even though it uses an ETA.

 

[pz93c]

My question is- with all of the enhancements being made by each company, at what point does it stop being like for like?

The engine comparison was a good one.