[watchfan]

I just ordered a Cleveland Express with blue dial and bracelet. I read it is COSC certified. I actually considered getting a Rolex but actually like this watch better (yes, it is true). Anyone have a Cleveland? Do you like it?

 

[HockeyBrand]

I can only imagine how stunning the blue dial is in person!:w00t: The photos I have seen are incredible enough! Bracelet with the multiple links across is a masterpiece!

Photo from About Time

 

[scottw44]

Hello and welcome. I am not sure if we have any CE owners in here but that is a great watch.

I look forward to your pics and thoughts when it arrives. It is a great looking watch.

 

[bullosa]

Congrats Watchfan,

I have seen the CE blue dial and it has a beautiful dial. I hope you find it meets all your expectation. Be sure you have your loupe with you when the watch arrives.

 

[timefinder]

What Rolex were you considering? Just curious.....

 

[Frontierman63]

Congrats,that is an Incredible watch:thumbup:

Dont forget pics when you get it,Please

Good Luck and Enjoy

 

[huioliver492ka]

I just ordered a Cleveland Express with blue dial and bracelet. I read it is COSC certified. I actually considered getting a Rolex but actually like this watch better (yes, it is true). Anyone have a Cleveland? Do you like it?

I have Ball and Rolex plus other brands. Qualitywise, on the outside both are well built watches. However, brand name of Rolex is much, much more prestigious. I don't think the two can be compared...are you saying that you like a CE better than a Rolex Daytona?

This is like comparing a Ferrari with a well built Toyota Corolla. Price points are different, brand names are different.

If you prefer a CE over a Rolex, then the CE is the right choice for you. Most people who buy Rolex are not just buying the watch per se.

 

[HockeyBrand]

Awesome collection you've got

huioliver492ka! :thumbup1:

I'll try and put into perspective the two comparable watches in my life and the X factor of it all.

Sold my Rolex Explorer II white face. Feature: GMT (never used it)
Prestige? Well yeah I suppose? However, most of my friends wear Daytonas, Presidents, Sea Dwellers, Subs, Omega SMP, and an assortment of Breitlings anyways.

Wrist time that I gave my Rolex? Well if it's trying to show someone up it sure doesn't do well. Just another fruit in the basket, to many of them...so I get ignored.

Yet me as lover of all watches do I comment back at them, "Wow what is that?!" Not unless it's something of a statement watch to themselves: Sinn, UN, GO, B&R, VC, Oris, or something else that is reputable to the real WIS and not necessarily just a fashion statement.

back to the story....

Bought the NT for a quarter of the price. Wrist time? 80% of the time over every other watch I own. Features? Those h3 tritium tubes!

Does it matter that it's among those other-said "prestigious watches" around the Casino Poker table? Nope.

All they notice is it's something different and something they want to hold onto, check out, see under UV light and realize that they may get a better kick out of it then flashing their watches and having others wonder if it's just another Canal Street knock-off. :biggrin:

ps. I know of a guy who could just about buy any watch he wanted. (he drives a Gallardo). My pal of this guy says he's Nutso about watches but is merely one of those guys that follows trend after trend. Right now he's into Jacob & Co 5 time zone watches all blinged out. Probably for a fraction of the price he paid for that I'd get a 7 day IWC portuguese in SS. So again it's not all about the price, value, prestige, reputation, etc.

Different X factors involved and I can see watchfan's point.

 

[HockeyBrand]

ps: is Watchfan : Milos?

If so...he would definitely know what he's talking about when it comes to Rolexes.:w00t:

 

[huioliver492ka]

Hi Hockeybrand,

Now I see what you mean. I have similar experiences. I seldom put on my Rolexes, though my favourite is the Sub (sentimental value more than because it is a Rolex). My workhorse watch now is an Anonimo (cos it is made in Italy, in Florence, my favourite city - yes I know it runs an ETA calibre (which keeps excellent time, btw)). All my Ball watches have given me very satisfactory service...the Mad Cow has in some cases generated conversations (so did the Anonimo, but never the Rolexes). This afternoon, I will be checking out the Hamilton Chrono and some Midos (my favourite dealer gave me a call to say that new supplies have come in).

About your rich friends...here in Hong Kong, I observe that those who are really, really wealthy dress humbly....maybe wearing Seikos and owns no vehicles (takes the subway), whilst those 9-5 executives wear PP, Rolexes etc. in order to impress (I think that's the motivation). The guy who drives Ferrari may be paying it off with his re-mortgaged house, while the guy taking the subway has 20 guys driving Gallardo's reporting to him (all wearing Daytonas ).

Watches are so well built these days....the other day I was tempted to get a Breitling Super Ocean...I just love that strap. I've got to control my buying patterns...been averaging 5 to 8 new buys a year. I am the kind of guy who will look at any kind of circular dial with hands and numbers (like a power meter or a gas meter) on street corners and trying to figure out what why and hows. I can stand in front of a watch store for hours...even if they are selling Casios.

Back to watches and the Cleveland...before you buy one, try out the chrono function. I tried two and both didn't seem to work right...the second hand 'trembles and hesitates' for a split second before kicking into action. I do not know if this is designed to be that way, or if it is a flaw. I was about to buy one and decided not to as a result.

 

[HockeyBrand]

Very excellent points! On another note... My HK buddy is born in NYC but worked in HK for the past 10+ years. He wears a fabulous WG IWC 7day. He is humble, has no car, tiny apartment. But it's his grail watch from his fiance at the time. Now married, he rarely wears it. But is very much proud of it!:thumbup1:

 

[bullosa]

Brandon and Oliver, good discussion on this thread, thx! I am still trying to understand the diversity of watch fans in different places. Your insight and perspectives are right on.

Back to the non Chrono CE, I think it is a great watch. I dont know about the Chrono version. I would be interested to know if indeed it was a design flaw or just one defective watch. Stuff like this happens, hopefully not repeated.

 

[huioliver492ka]

Bit off topic but I want to give you an example of questions raised on a local Hong Kong Rolex Forum. My point is that people in this town buy the brand more than than the watch...when you see these questions, you begin to wonder about the vanity of it all - as long as it is expensive, then they will buy. Having said that, Rolex is still a good watch.

Also, have you ever asked yourself this question: if I were to spend a year in North Pole and knowing that I can only wear one watch, and that once i set the time it will be a year from now till I get to reset it, which one I will bring? For me, its the Mad Cow (antimagnetic, antishock, glows like a flash light, -40 deg C tolerance, tough and reliable ETA movement).

Anway, here are the 'rolex questions' I reaped from the HK Forum...

1. What is the 60-min thing that rotates? Why is it there on the Submariner and Sea Dweller?
2. Is the 60-min bezel used to time oxygen consumption? (Oliver's comment: whoever is asking is apparently NOT a diver.)
3. Why does the watch stop if I do not wear it?
4. What is the difference between the Sea Dweller and the Submariner? Cost about the same, so which one is better?
5. How do I adjust the calendar day? Do I have to turn the hands 24 hrs every time I wish to advance by 1 day?
6. Is it safe to boil the watch? (Oliver's comment: this guy was having Chinese hotpot and tried to show off by boiling his Submariner in front of his friends).
7. Can I wear it jogging? How about biking? Won't the vibration damage the watch?
8. Can I wear the Submariner to the swimming pool? Is it waterproof?
9. Should I get a PAM or a Rolex? Which one is more fashionable?
10. How do I hand wind the watch?
11. Is a Rolex a good investment? (Oliver's comment: this guy should buy stocks instead)
12. How do I use the GMT function?
13. I want to buy a Rolex, which one should I buy? Are there different kinds of Rolex?
14. Can I use a credit card to make installment payments when buying a Rolex? (Oliver's comment: if it is so difficult, why buy it?)
15. The Rolex glows brightly when I switch off the light, but loses the glow after about 5 hours. Is something wrong?

And talking about questions, one of the questions that keep popping up on the Panerai forum in Hong Kong is:

1. Does a large size PAM look good on the thin wrist of a girl? (Oliver's comment: this depends on how ugly the girl is.)

-oliver-

 

[scottw44]

A very interesting read Oliver. Thanx for taking the time to compile and share all of this info with us. I still have one question though, can you boil your "Mad Cow."

 

[iceheller]

I have Ball and Rolex plus other brands. Qualitywise, on the outside both are well built watches. However, brand name of Rolex is much, much more prestigious. I don't think the two can be compared...are you saying that you like a CE better than a Rolex Daytona?

This is like comparing a Ferrari with a well built Toyota Corolla. Price points are different, brand names are different.

If you prefer a CE over a Rolex, then the CE is the right choice for you. Most people who buy Rolex are not just buying the watch per se.

No offense here. But BALL CE and Rolex Daytona are deffinitely not the same caliber. Rolex Daytona is one of the most recognise and complicated model of rolex. But it you put rolex daytona beside UN chrono or Brueget complicated model. Daytona is nothing compare to it. So rolex maybe prestigue but it is also not really so prestigue in many other sense.
For a better comparison of BALL and Rolex(And in these case) CE with Airking or datejust. All cosc and uncomplicated dial with maybe date window. Then you would have a better judgement. You can only lied to yourself if you still think rolex is better looking at their price and functionality...

 

[iceheller]

But then again rolex uses the "own movement" so there my be a selling price there but the it price do not really justify the "own movement"? Iit only justify the commermical value that rolex has spend on advertising and sponsoring event. And Daytona used Valjoux7750 at one stage of production(wonder what movement Tudor uses?). So rolex owner can really think of their favourite phase-"a rolex is a rolex" cause they think they bought something unique but it another watch where people dump it pre-own watch shop.

 

[scottw44]

The very early Daytona's did in fact use a Valjoux movement, the Valjoux 72. I then remember it using the Zenith El Primero Fast Beat movement. It took a long time for a Rolex caliber to grace the Daytona, that I remember.

 

[scottw44]

Did some googling, found the following Daytona article. Some interesting info on the movements used.

http://www.minutemachines.com/massena/Daytona/MassenaDaytona.html

 

[huioliver492ka]

But then again rolex uses the "own movement" so there my be a selling price there but the it price do not really justify the "own movement"? Iit only justify the commermical value that rolex has spend on advertising and sponsoring event. And Daytona used Valjoux7750 at one stage of production(wonder what movement Tudor uses?). So rolex owner can really think of their favourite phase-"a rolex is a rolex" cause they think they bought something unique but it another watch where people dump it pre-own watch shop.

Somehow, I need convincing that a Ball is same level as a Rolex. If we take a Rolex and a Ball, and go up to anyone on the street and ask them to choose one, they might all choose a Rolex. And Rolex is considered as an 'investment'...Rolex can be easily converted into money - that's why most gangsters in Asia wear Rolex (this I have told). Mind you I am not a Rolex fan...there're too many out there on the streets and that's why I am starting to not wear mine. Quality-wise, still, if someone can do me a tech spec by spec comparison of the components, the technology innovations involved, etc. so as an engineer I can have a spreadsheet analysis just like a response to a government tender (!), then it will help us all a lot. All I hear about Ball is the 3H, and some creative functions, but I hear about new springs from Rolex, 'better' steel used on Rolex, etc., the revoluntionary YM II design.

I do not know about UN and others. I only know they are more expensive but why this is the case I have no clue. Can someone tell me?

I think much has to do with marketing strategy, although there has got to be some quality issues involved, hence I can be completely wrong and a Ball is actually same quality as a Rolex, or even better (surprise, surprise).

 

[iceheller]

Somehow, I need convincing that a Ball is same level as a Rolex. If we take a Rolex and a Ball, and go up to anyone on the street and ask them to choose one, they might all choose a Rolex. And Rolex is considered as an 'investment'...Rolex can be easily converted into money - that's why most gangsters in Asia wear Rolex (this I have told). Mind you I am not a Rolex fan...there're too many out there on the streets and that's why I am starting to not wear mine. Quality-wise, still, if someone can do me a tech spec by spec comparison of the components, the technology innovations involved, etc. so as an engineer I can have a spreadsheet analysis just like a response to a government tender (!), then it will help us all a lot. All I hear about Ball is the 3H, and some creative functions, but I hear about new springs from Rolex, 'better' steel used on Rolex, etc., the revoluntionary YM II design.

I do not know about UN and others. I only know they are more expensive but why this is the case I have no clue. Can someone tell me?

I think much has to do with marketing strategy, although there has got to be some quality issues involved, hence I can be completely wrong and a Ball is actually same quality as a Rolex, or even better (surprise, surprise).

Well you are right about rolex raw material part. They do use better grade raw material but it still just dun really justify the selling price unless you are talking about gold/plat base product. But people buy rolex for the brand name(so it just paying of the commerical value of the watch). At current standard, BALL is definitely not the same class as Rolex. I dun think i heard of much QC problem with rolex but BALL is not the case.There are others minor problem too. And BALL dont really have their "independent movement" so maybe when they really come out with unqiue "independent movement" then they might be same class as rolex.