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Discussion Starter #1
For those who have gotten their EL Watch Talk Forum timepieces (you lucky dogs - I'm still waiting), I have a question:

Is the second hand sweep as smooth as, say, on an ETA 2824? I don't know the Claro's frequency.

On that TV show last night, a vendor was selling a watch with the Claro automatic. The close-up seemed to indicate more of a "tick" - like on my Seiko 6R15 automatic - than a "sweep."

Yes, I could wait until I get home tonight - whenever that is:mad:- but the suspense is killing me.

Thanks!
 

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Claro-888

boscoe;

Here is some information on the Claro:

11 1/2''' or 25.60mm movement
21,600 A/hr.
18 jewels
36 hours running time
Manual winding and self-winding
Quick date correction

There is more of a tick than a sweep on this particular movement. About 4 per second.
That is if you are comparing this movement to a 7750 which in the higher grades will run at 28,800.

Regards,

Gérard M. Diffiné
President
Montres Edouard Lauzières - North America
 

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I find mine to be rather smooth with it has a small amount of tick (I have to observe very very close though). My ETA 2824 Invicta is about the same. My Sea Dweller is smoother but given the price difference it **** well better be:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thank you all for the information.
My Seiko has the same heartbeat as the Claro.
 

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I don't know what I have with the 2824 is, but I was going to say the EL is slightly less smooth than most of my others. Though, to be fair I had to really look at it to notice it.

But based on the specs Gerard shared, I should expect it to be a bit less smooth as it's beating 2 less times per second, right?
 

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Claro-888

I don't know what I have with the 2824 is, but I was going to say the EL is slightly less smooth than most of my others. Though, to be fair I had to really look at it to notice it.

But based on the specs Gerard shared, I should expect it to be a bit less smooth as it's beating 2 less times per second, right?
Generally speaking, yes.
There are many ways to make the second hand sweep much smoother, but this involves further complicating the movement.

We used to use the ETA 2824-2 in these models, but deliveries become unreliable as our business has grown. So, we switched to the CLARO.
For the rest of the models bound for the US, we use an EL-18 movement with an exhibition caseback.
Here we use the base CLARO, and change out many of the parts. Therefore making it our own movement.
This is done by many manufacturers in the industry. Many watch manufacturers will purchase a 7750 for instance Then use this as a base for an elaborate movement of their own.

Regards,

Gérard M. Diffiné
President
Montres Edouard Lauzières - North America
 

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Thanks for the info Gerard! :thumbup1:

So do all EL's use a Claro? I can definitely see where using the ETA's would put a company at the mercy of Swatches whims given their production woes lately....

Also, I tried finding Claro's website to learn a bit about their movements. Couldn't find it. Anyone got a URL for them?
 

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Thanks for the info Gerard! :thumbup1:

So do all EL's use a Claro? I can definitely see where using the ETA's would put a company at the mercy of Swatches whims given their production woes lately....

Also, I tried finding Claro's website to learn a bit about their movements. Couldn't find it. Anyone got a URL for them?

Scott, I went through all of this when I got my Zodiac a few years ago. I don't believe that Claro even has a website. From my discussion with James Elsener before I joined this forum, I understand that they are a very small boutique type movement house, producing ebauches and full movements to the small low volume watch brands usually exclusive to Switzerland. I forget the gentlemans first name, but the owner is Von Burg or something similiar.
Hopefully, with the arrival of your WTF watches, and EL seeming to utilize Claro/Semag, as well as Lior from SWI putting them in a couple of his models, we will slowly learn more about the movement.
 

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Claro-888

Thanks for the info Gerard! :thumbup1:

So do all EL's use a Claro? I can definitely see where using the ETA's would put a company at the mercy of Swatches whims given their production woes lately....

Also, I tried finding Claro's website to learn a bit about their movements. Couldn't find it. Anyone got a URL for them?
The Forum watch is a Claro-888 with a solid caseback to accommodate the engraving on the back.
This style in general is sold throught the Middle East (our largest market) with some style of engraving on the back.

For the US market, we use an EL-18 movement. This is the same CLARO-888, only we have some parts that we change, and the movement is upgraded.
Also in the US, we have exhibition casebacks, as this is more popular here.

CLARO is owned by the George J. von Burg family.
You will not find a website for them, as there is no need to advertise for new business here.

Regards,

Gérard M. Diffiné
President
Montres Edouard Lauzières - North America
 

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I'm a little dissapointed in the Claro 888-2 in the WTF watch. This is my first watch with the Claro and I had previously never been introduced.

I can only describe the sweep across the dial as schizophrenic. At times, the movement seems to track like a quartz watch, yet, there are instances where the movement seemingly tries play catch-up to the smoothness of an automatic.

To be sure, there is a performance issue that is to be expected. An ETA 2824 beats at 28,800 bph, while the Claro beats at 21,600. An easy 25% less "smoothness", if you will.

As a WIS, I am repulsed when I look at the movement across the dial. Still, as a collector, I suppose owning a watch with a Claro movement was inevitable - though not neccesarily habit forming.

After 24 hours, the watch is running at +18. Hardly respectable and very "Asian" in performance a la Seiko, Invicta, and others. Dependable watches, of course, but the differences with their Swiss and German counterparts are readily discernable.

For what it's worth, I consider the "break-in" period to be myth. I have never owned a watch, of any pedigree, that gained or lost accuracy after use and "settled" into a predictable range. Out of the box time is the time that the watch kept. (Differences in performance between wrist time, winder time, dial position, etc. accounted for.)

Just my opinions and observations.
 

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21600bph watches can appear smooth if they are designed a little smaller. I suppose it would be obvious if the watch is a 46mm but this is not the case.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I'm a little dissapointed in the Claro 888-2 in the WTF watch. This is my first watch with the Claro and I had previously never been introduced.

I can only describe the sweep across the dial as schizophrenic. At times, the movement seems to track like a quartz watch, yet, there are instances where the movement seemingly tries play catch-up to the smoothness of an automatic.

To be sure, there is a performance issue that is to be expected. An ETA 2824 beats at 28,800 bph, while the Claro beats at 21,600. An easy 25% less "smoothness", if you will.

As a WIS, I am repulsed when I look at the movement across the dial. Still, as a collector, I suppose owning a watch with a Claro movement was inevitable - though not neccesarily habit forming.

After 24 hours, the watch is running at +18. Hardly respectable and very "Asian" in performance a la Seiko, Invicta, and others. Dependable watches, of course, but the differences with their Swiss and German counterparts are readily discernable.

For what it's worth, I consider the "break-in" period to be myth. I have never owned a watch, of any pedigree, that gained or lost accuracy after use and "settled" into a predictable range. Out of the box time is the time that the watch kept. (Differences in performance between wrist time, winder time, dial position, etc. accounted for.)

Just my opinions and observations.
Thanks for your two-cents, lonetime. My Seiko 6R15 seems to stutter a bit (has the same 21,600 beat I believe), but I like quartz too so I'm not expecting it to be an issue.

And you make an interesting point, as a watch geek I enjoy having different movements in my collection. So I'm looking forward to living with a Claro. (I haven't picked my watch up yet. :mad:)
 

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I'm a little dissapointed in the Claro 888-2 in the WTF watch. This is my first watch with the Claro and I had previously never been introduced.

I can only describe the sweep across the dial as schizophrenic. At times, the movement seems to track like a quartz watch, yet, there are instances where the movement seemingly tries play catch-up to the smoothness of an automatic.

To be sure, there is a performance issue that is to be expected. An ETA 2824 beats at 28,800 bph, while the Claro beats at 21,600. An easy 25% less "smoothness", if you will.

As a WIS, I am repulsed when I look at the movement across the dial. Still, as a collector, I suppose owning a watch with a Claro movement was inevitable - though not neccesarily habit forming.

After 24 hours, the watch is running at +18. Hardly respectable and very "Asian" in performance a la Seiko, Invicta, and others. Dependable watches, of course, but the differences with their Swiss and German counterparts are readily discernable.

For what it's worth, I consider the "break-in" period to be myth. I have never owned a watch, of any pedigree, that gained or lost accuracy after use and "settled" into a predictable range. Out of the box time is the time that the watch kept. (Differences in performance between wrist time, winder time, dial position, etc. accounted for.)

Just my opinions and observations.
Lonetime;

This does appear to be running fast.
We normally test this movement in various positions and achieve an accuracy pattern of +/- 12 seconds over a 5 day period.

I will PM you to make arrangements to have this watch adjusted.

Regards,

Gérard M. Diffiné
President
Montres Edouard Lauzières - North America
 

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Lonetime;

This does appear to be running fast.

SNIP!

Gérard M. Diffiné
President
Montres Edouard Lauzières - North America
Thank you for the offer. I have responded to your pm.

I hope you don't think I was soliciting WIS sympathy. It was not intended.

Though the WTF watch may be the first purchase I have made from you, I have read great things about your customer service on this, and other, forums.
 
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