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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I acquired a salvaged "hidden spaceview RR" (pretty sure it was pieced together). The chapter ring needs to be replaced. I removed the crystal and the crystal, tension ring, and chapter ring were all glued in :glare:

Once removed, and a replacement ring is found, I plan on rebuilding it to be my daily-use spaceview (as its not in any way original). My question is whether or not it needs to be glued, and also which size crystal.

The case ID measures 33.35-33.37mm. The crystal on ebay I believe goes on it is 316-1AWS and 316-AWS which measures 33.6mm. There is original and Clark. I plan on getting a Clark because I'll probably break it. Is +0.2mm too big for a tension ring crystal? I could always heat the case up slightly in the oven (slightly!), and toss the tension ring in the freezer. It's a trick I learned when pressing wheel bearings into my Porsche :T Any advice against that?

What are your thoughts?
 

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First of all, Nothing should have ever been glued in...ever. 316-1AWS will work on that case and should press in without trouble, just take it to a competent watch repairman
Would also like to see pics of the dial because they did make a Swiss Chapter ring Railroad Approved
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'll post pics later. The dial is interesting. Too bad it's so badly worn. Can the chapter ring be refurbished cheaper than waiting for a new one to pop up on the bay? I have seen them before for around $75. I'm not keen to spend more than it's worth, but sometimes it happens. The movement is a 214H so that's always cool. I'll have to find a way to dissolve the glue as the chapter ring is stuck in pretty good. Some people :(

Thanks for the tip on the crystal. I assume I need a crystal press? Or I could just the right 12-pt socket since it's chamfered at 45 degrees. Then something between them to protect the surface... hmm, I like doing things right though so I'm skeptical. Although it's effectively the exact same thing from a physical standpoint
 

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It would be easier to take it to a competent watch repairman who installs crystals all the time. If you don't mind ruining a few crystals first, you could try it your way. If you get all the glue off the chapter ring, you could have it redone for about $50 but it will be obvious
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That's a good idea. I'll just go to a professional until I have the right tools. If it's obvious, then I think I'll buy a mint one.

RR2.jpg
RR1.jpg
 

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Nice project. Should be a good watch when you finish. I'll bet you get the press for crystal installation! With what you are learning to do, it will be a useful tool.
 

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Every time I think I'm starting to learn something about Accutrons someone throws a curve ball. Interesting watch.
 

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akkatron,
I like the lines of that Swiss case. It looks like the same one on my Spaceview conversion. The blue reflector ring may be hard to find but I will try to look up the part number. Do you have a case number?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
akkatron,
I like the lines of that Swiss case. It looks like the same one on my Spaceview conversion. The blue reflector ring may be hard to find but I will try to look up the part number. Do you have a case number?
Yeah I have never seen the blue chapter ring before

Case says:
168910
N0

Inside says:
"CB" (printed inside of what looks like a tombstone"
770
Swiss
 

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That case (770) is on lists of known Spaceview watches. It had a 214H movement with crystal #770AWS and reflector ring #567.
 

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That is not the right case back for that watch. I have a Swis Chapter Ring Railroad and the correct case number is 316-2 and the Chapter ring is R549 and the chapter ring should have no lume. Bulova makes no distinctions in the configuration of that number chapter ring i.e. lume or no lume, or lume at every marker except 3,6,9,& 12 which would be correct for case 316-1 Chapter Ring Spaceview
 

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accutron,
Strange as it may seem, I think that we are in agreement here. Something about akkatron's watch is not correct. I agree that the lume on the reflector is not correct for a Swiss RR with a blue 24 hour dial. Bulova made at least two of that style. One had tritium hands (T-SWISS-T) and the other did not. Neither had tritium on the reflector. Both had black 12 hour markers on the dial.
So few examples have ever been posted but from accatron's photos, there must have been a third variant with gold applied numerals. Wouldn't we expect to find that dial in a gold case?
As for the date code, isn't 1970 (N0) a bit late for a Swiss RR? It would be of some help to know the date code on his movement.
Obviously, accatron's RR dial is beyond salvage and He would like to make it into a Spaceview. In addition, I agree that the dial is probably not correct for the 770 case. My first thought was also that the case back had been switched but assume that the case and case back are a match and that the reflector is also original to that case then, the addition of a 770AWS crystal and some appropriate hands would make a nice Spaceview. A 2-wire 214H* movement would make it technically correct and almost indistinguishable from an original. That would necessitate finding a 770AWS crystal just to check the fit in accatron's case, what ever it is. There are three available on eBay for $75, item #390384684224. According to the seller (bethw2222), it measures 34.1mm.
Just out of curiosity, what are the date codes on your 316-x cases?

* Having never seen a Spaceview in a 770 case, I wonder about the correct movement. I know from research done by others that it had a hack spring but I don't know if it was a 214H or 2141 and I don't know if it would have been nickel or gold plated in 1970. Would a 1970 Spaceview have had a US made nickel plated 214H movement in a Swiss case or would it have had a Swiss made gold 2141?
 

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accutron,
* Having never seen a Spaceview in a 770 case, I wonder about the correct movement. I know from research done by others that it had a hack spring but I don't know if it was a 214H or 2141 and I don't know if it would have been nickel or gold plated in 1970. Would a 1970 Spaceview have had a US made nickel plated 214H movement in a Swiss case or would it have had a Swiss made gold 2141?
Sam, here is a picture of my case 770 spaceview N0 before and after. The 770AWS crystals are quite rare and there are no modern repos.

770_Before.jpg 770_after.JPG
 

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A pillow case? Yours looks like a Spaceview "T" ref. No. 21077. and with case number 770, that is proof that accatron's watch has had a case back transplant. His case back may be worth more that the watch as a whole. My notes show a Spaceview "T" with a case number of 077. I must be dyslectic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So you're saying I have a pillow case back? I'm disappointed that it isn't a true swiss RR. I was thinking of getting the dial redone anyways for personal reasons. I don't really need another spaceview, and there are so many chapter ring spaceviews our there already.

I did just get an ultrasonic cleaner finally. Cleaned the gears on a different slow watch and now she runs beautifully! (I also oiled it)

More info on the swiss RR. Accutron, can you post a picture of yours?
 

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So you're saying I have a pillow case back? I'm disappointed that it isn't a true swiss RR. I was thinking of getting the dial redone anyways for personal reasons. I don't really need another spaceview, and there are so many chapter ring spaceviews our there already.

I did just get an ultrasonic cleaner finally. Cleaned the gears on a different slow watch and now she runs beautifully! (I also oiled it)

More info on the swiss RR. Accutron, can you post a picture of yours?
I should have pictures up in a week or 2. I'm waiting on the case to get back from laser welding the insides of the lugs. A spring end expansion band really wore it down. But all i have to do is get my NOS crystal pressed in and I can put it all together and get some pics for you. I will look perfect when it's all put together
 

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If you look hard you could find the appropriate Swiss case back (1-******) on the bay. If your 770 case back is in good shape with no gouges or scratches, I wouldn't sell it for less than $200.00. If any one asks "Why so much?" then I'd say try to find another one! just my opinion
 

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Don't be disappointed. I have no doubt that your case back is for a Spaceview "T" ref. No. 21077. Not long ago, I picked up a run of the mill 218 with inner and outer boxes. The outer box, labeled 21036, was for an N2 Spaceview "G" and as it turned out, it was worth as much as what I paid for the watch.

For what it is worth, my parts catalog shows that Railroad Approved watch 21260 had "Swiss" case number 316-2. I have seen examples dated M4 and M6. 316-2 was also found on 21271 and 21272. Many Swiss Accutron watches used cases in the 316 family but except for 21260 and 21038, I have been unable to determine which were railroad approved, Spaceview or other dial types. They all seem to have a chapter ring in common.
Some but not all are listed at the bottom of the pdf below. 21038 is not listed but it is a dress watch, Accutron "209" that has been well documented in numerous Bulova ads of the day.

http://www.yeagley.net/Accutron/218 Parts Pages.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I'm bumping this thread because I got another like dial but without "railroad" printed on it. I'm heading home afterwork to photograph parts and pieces. I also have an NOS 316-1APS crystal coming in the mail. "P" stand for pink tension ring. Not sure how pink it really is, so I may be using the original tension ring if it's salvageable.

Next on the list, I'm looking for the sharp steel hands used on the Swiss Chapter Ring Spaceview. They are relatively short and come to a sharp point. (Not your average stel hands) Edit: I believe they are nickel-plated. What is that part number?

Thanks!

ps I've been a little aloof from the the forum, but no worries, I've still been buying and fixing. Trying to source parts...
 
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