[Tomasomoro]

Hi everyone ... Just a question... If the word "astronaut" was only introduced on the accutrons in late 1962, how could the 1961 Accutron Gold 18KT "astronaut" (M1) exist? I can't understand ... maybe I missed a part of the accutron story.

 

[CometHunter]

Maybe your info source missed something?
Pending further clarification, here is a screen grab from www. chronopedia .com

 

[Spaceview M2]

(M1) 1961 18kt Gold Accutron Astronaut

 

[CometHunter]

Hey buddy, ol' pal...if storing that ever becomes an inconvenience, I'll be glad to take care of it for you!

 

[Spaceview M2]

Hey buddy, ol' pal...if storing that ever becomes an inconvenience, I'll be glad to take care of it for you!

Sorry but it's a reference file photo. It's not my watch although I do believe many years ago the owner was on this site showing it off. I did make an offer on one similar to this many years ago and the owner rejected my offer (bid over $10,000) and I haven't pursued any since. It's a beautiful watch but it's not on my radar anymore.

 

[Tomasomoro]

Forse la tua fonte di informazioni ha perso qualcosa?
In attesa di ulteriori chiarimenti, ecco uno screenshot tratto da www. cronopedia.com
View attachment 232089
[/CITAZIONE]

Maybe your info source missed something?
Pending further clarification, here is a screen grab from www. chronopedia .com
View attachment 232089

Thanks for the reply but still something is wrong. The same page quoted on chronopedia.com, a few lines earlier, writes that it was only in 1962 that the model with the 214 GMT movement was produced ... "In 1962 Bulova produced the Astronaut, a 214-based GMT timepiece with a 24-hour rotating bezel. , secondary 24-hour hand and hack function. "
The story of accutron "astronaut" begins in 1962. Initially with the production of prototypes for x-15 pilots and later for NASA. The first models did not carry the "astronaut" writing which was introduced only in early 1963 after the success with the pilots experimentation and the excellent publicity it brought. So ... how could an accutron called "astronaut" be built in 1961 when it was not yet known that it would become the astronaut's watch? (As always, excuse my terrible English)

 

[CometHunter]

Sorry but it's a reference file photo. It's not my watch....

Oh well, can't knock a guy for trying.

 

[uscjake87]

There are certainly more of them. A very limited serial number range. Here is one just a few serials away. I think that the story of the watch being commemorated in 1962 as "astronaut" does have a problem with the M1 18k watches. Here are a few theories:

1) They could have used leftover 18K cases in limited quantities. I have yet to see a movement inside these 18k watches to see if it has an actual 214HN M1 or M2 movement.

2) The "pre-astro" dials (saying just "accutron" or "accutron "bulova" in 1962 are considered the earliest variations (until these 18K M1s showed up). Bulova had lots of dial/hand variations with various dial manufacturers in the USA and Europe. It's rather mind boggling how many dial/case variations of watches there are even just in the early M0/M1 watches. If I am putting a bulova executives hat on, perhaps they released the 18k astronaut to compete with a lot of the Omega solid gold GMT watches of the time. Bulova wanted a watch in space, and in 62 they started mass producing stainless steel cases. Maybe the executives did think it through and planned the dial text change and marketing change.

It certainly is reflected in the serialization of the 62/63 astronaut watches where there is a clear change from the early dial text layout in E15XXX serials and then in F, and G serials you see the Astronaut text appear. It indicates a shift in their marketing strategy and commitment to the "astronaut" branding. I suspect Bulova wanted to try a few watches without the astronaut text for people who wanted a pilot/sterile dial watch.

 

[Tomasomoro]

I agree with you, in particular, it has never been seen what movement is inside an M1 18kt ... and I would be curious to see one. I'm personally convinced that Astronaut M1 18kt was made long after 1962 ... probably after 1964 but with the date M1 on the caseback. An advertising “move” or maybe just a frankewatch ...

also ... the only "AD" I found on an 18Kt gold Accutron astronaut is from 1964. I doubt Bulova didn't advertise an 18Kt astronaut accutron in 1961 ... if it really existed.

 

[Spaceview M2]

I'm personally convinced that Astronaut M1 18kt was made long after 1962 ... probably after 1964 but with the date M1 on the caseback. An advertising “move” or maybe just a frankewatch ...

also ... the only "AD" I found on an 18Kt gold Accutron astronaut is from 1964. I doubt Bulova didn't advertise an 18Kt astronaut accutron in 1961 ... if it really existed.

One thing I have learned is not to argue with someone with alternate opinions. Whatever you think is fine. Just keep in mind two Things.
1. The 18Kt Gold Watch case which is an Astronaut case is dated 1961. You can't change that fact!
2. Also the Platinum Accutron Model 703 (pictured below) is also dated 1961.(Not related to any astronaut but a rare specialty example that was not promoted and absent from many Bulova listings.

3. Neither showed up on Bulovas Price list in 1961 even though they were both dated 1961. Both were on the price list in 1964. So just because they weren't on a 'list' doesn't mean they didn't exist!!!!!!!!!

And if you notice, the two examples on this post are 'specialty' limited run extremely expensive early year Accutrons that had nothing to do with all the mass producing of the Stainless Steel Astronauts seen in 1962 and later that you are trying to compare it to. I wouldn't try to associate these rare 18kt gold Astronauts with the mass-produced Stainless Steel versions. Two different animals. But, how it all fell into place in a timeline will probably stay somewhat of a mystery.

 

[uscjake87]

As spaceviewm2 says, there are a lot of of extremely rare/limited releases that happened in M0/M1. Some of which people still haven't seen. I am blown away by how many variations there are. The long running story of the astronaut watch being commemorated after the X-15 flights is obviously a great marketing ploy and aligns with the timeline/serialization as I stated. All signs point to the accuracy of that story, especially with Bulova using the X-15 mission in their marketing. Nobody has stacks of Bulova documents to prove the marketing strategies of the time and if they started with the gold watch in M1 and had some kind of epiphany when the X-15 flights happen to capitalize on it. I did look in my picture folder for the watch spaceviewM2 posted... I have what I think is the movement picture as I labeled the filename with that M1 serial number. It has a different band on it, and I don't see the same background so take this with a grain of salt as I could have labeled it wrong.

 

[uscjake87]

A few more pictures of other close serials:

 

[Spaceview M2]

Footnote: I am really not a person to examine and determine many aspects of the Astronaut Detail and history anymore. Once I had a huge interest in them as reflected in my collection pic below but I was soured in the past years by some troubling situations that made me venture into less controversial models. So I am not the one to further detail the Astronauts as some others can. My knowledge base has fallen off and my archives are now very limited as is my aging brain. I have thrown out as much as I can on detail and that is about as much as I can contribute. This is all I have to contribute.

Cheers to those that continue to dig deep and fall into the Rabbit Hole known as Astronaut collecting. It's a hobby unto itself.

 

[mikeyt_53]

With me not being an Astronaut owner, I'm still smart enough to see that is a beautiful collection!

 

[Tomasomoro]

Che fantastica considerazione Spaceview M2. Credo che per alcune menti il tempo non passi... come per l'astronauta accutron che rimarrà sempre meraviglioso anche tra 1000 anni. La tua collezione ha bisogno solo di stupore e silenzio.
ps
La tana del coniglio sarà sempre occupata da qualcuno a cui piace cadere in
****
And for those of you who dont do translations;
" What a fantastic consideration Spaceview M2. I believe that for some minds time does not pass ... as for the Astronaut Accutron which will always remain wonderful even in 1000 years. Your collection only needs amazement and silence.
ps
The rabbit den will always be occupied by someone who likes to fall into"

 

[Chris Radek]

I've serviced an 18k Astro marked D50xxx M1. It contained a much later 214HN movement, unfortunately.

 

[wlinc]

I just want to point out the the platinum model and price ($2500) was part of Bulova's Accutron announcement in October of 1960. The price range announced at that time was from $175 to $395. This makes it seems like they didn't have plans initially for the 18k Astronaut which would end up costing $1000.

 

[uscjake87]

To add to a little mystery, we also see M1 solid gold watches used in later M4 contexts. This one is pretty interesting! It does make you wonder if there was some sort of reserve of solid gold cases/casebacks for the Bulova custom watch department. The sales site wrote this: "The case back is engraved Boston, 1964 and 14th Annual. There were only 22 of these special watches made. They were only given to each player and coach involved in the 14th Annual NBA All Star Game played in Boston. It was the first Bulova sponsored televised All Star Game."

 

[tayloreuph]

Make the case, stamp it, then sit on it until there’s a reason to throw a movement into it? Maybe they got a good price on gold? Buying in bulk?


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[wlinc]

Make the case, stamp it, then sit on it until there’s a reason to throw a movement into it? Maybe they got a good price on gold? Buying in bulk?

I think that it is something exactly like this. I've only been collecting for a short while, but I will say that M0 and M1 are the most common to find on a gold watch case. M2-M4 is a relative dead zone. You will be especially hard pressed to find an asymmetric or alpha gold case from those years. There is a topic on the forums here crowd sourcing 521 case serial numbers- 20 gold cases and they are all M0.

The funny thing is that many, many sellers will describe a gold M0 or even M1 as a "rare" early watch. I would treat such claims with a healthy amount of skepticism.