[David Duty]

For the last week I kept almost a day by day report on the accuracy of my new M23 Automatic. I timed it against the atomic clock online which I use to test all my watches when I get them. It by far my most accurate automatic. Blew me away to be honest and what a beautiful watch, #143 of 150. I think it's probably the only Lum-Tec in Panama and I'm 99.9% sure it's the only M23 in Panama. Below is a cut and paste from my Evernote file.

M23 Tungsten Carbide. LUM-TEC MDV technology®. Swiss automatic ETA 2824-2 rhodium finish movement

Start Date and Time: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:00:00 CDT

UNSO Time
Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:01:09 CDT

Lum-Tec M23 Time
Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:01:10 CDT
+1 Second - Day Four

UNSO Time
Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:26:03 CDT

Lum-Tec M23 Time
Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:26:03 CDT
+1.5 Second - Day Five

US Naval Observatory Master Clock Time:
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:56:26 UTC

Time Zones:
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:56:26 EDT
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:26 CDT

Lum-Tec M23
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:26 CDT
NOT EVEN A SECOND OFF AFTER A WEEK- AMAZED :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

David,
Boquete, Panama

Update at two weeks.

Time Zones:
Mon, 01 Nov 2011 11:00:00 CDT

Lum-Tec M23
Mon, 01 Nov 2011 10:59:53 CDT

Off by only 7 seconds in two weeks. Still amazed. It has not left my wrist for more than a couple of hours since I got it. I sleep with it, shower with it and not even a minor scratch anywhere. One tough and beautiful watch.

 

[clubbtraxx]

That shows that even a standard grade 2824-2 can be very accurate when regulated properly.

Congrats on your new watch!

 

[Ladd Gardner]

Lum-Tec uses solid movements and takes pains to regulate them. Conscientious regulation is the most important ingredient. My SCB2 is currently 4 seconds fast after two months.

I wind it at the same time each morning, and it has lost just slightly less than a second by bedtime. it goes on the nightstand, face up, overnight and gains back exactly what it lost on my wrist during the day. :thumbup1:

 

[BrianS]

One of the big attractions to Lum-Tec for me is I know I'm getting basically a COSC adjusted movement without the up-charge normally associated with that.

So it doesn't say Certified Chronometer on the dial - big whoop.. Throw in life time adjustments - they are practically giving them away! :thumbup1:

 

[David Duty]

For the last week I kept almost a day by day report on the accuracy of my new M23 Automatic. I timed it against the atomic clock online which I use to test all my watches when I get them. It by far my most accurate automatic. Blew me away to be honest and what a beautiful watch, #143 of 150. I think it's probably the only Lum-Tec in Panama and I'm 99.9% sure it's the only M23 in Panama. Below is a cut and paste from my Evernote file.

M23 Tungsten Carbide. LUM-TEC MDV technology®. Swiss automatic ETA 2824-2 rhodium finish movement

Start Date and Time: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:00:00 CDT

UNSO Time
Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:01:09 CDT

Lum-Tec M23 Time
Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:01:10 CDT
+1 Second - Day Four

UNSO Time
Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:26:03 CDT

Lum-Tec M23 Time
Fri, 21 Oct 2011 20:26:03 CDT
+1.5 Second - Day Five

US Naval Observatory Master Clock Time:
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 21:56:26 UTC

Time Zones:
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 17:56:26 EDT
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:26 CDT

Lum-Tec M23
Sun, 23 Oct 2011 16:56:26 CDT
NOT EVEN A SECOND OFF AFTER A WEEK- AMAZED :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

David,
Boquete, Panama

Update at two weeks.

Time Zones:
Mon, 01 Nov 2011 11:00:00 CDT

Lum-Tec M23
Mon, 01 Nov 2011 10:59:53 CDT

Off by only 7 seconds in two weeks. Still amazed. It has not left my wrist for more than a couple of hours since I got it. I sleep with it, shower with it and not even a minor scratch anywhere. One tough and beautiful watch.

UPDATED: Nov. 7th, 2011
Now on Day 23 of checking the time against the Atomic Clock. It's off about 12 seconds in 23 days. This is truly amazing for any mechanical watch IMHO. Less than 1/2 second a day!!!!!

 

[Ladd Gardner]

UPDATED: Nov. 7th, 2011
Now on Day 23 of checking the time against the Atomic Clock. It's off about 12 seconds in 23 days. This is truly amazing for any mechanical watch IMHO. Less than 1/2 second a day!!!!!

Try taking it off at night and positioning it face down to see if it gains a second or so on your nightstand. Experiment with positioning. Try it face up for a night, and see what that does. I've found that all of my Lum-Tecs can be regulated to keep perfect time once I learn their overnight habits.

 

[clubbtraxx]

Try taking it off at night and positioning it face down to see if it gains a second or so on your nightstand. Experiment with positioning. Try it face up for a night, and see what that does. I've found that all of my Lum-Tecs can be regulated to keep perfect time once I learn their overnight habits.

Why bother at 1/2 a sec a day :001_unsure:
Pretty awesome for a mechanical is it not?

 

[Ladd Gardner]

Why bother at 1/2 a sec a day :001_unsure:
Pretty awesome for a mechanical is it not?

Absolutely awesome, CT!

I didn't realize how I was coming across.

Any mechanical watch that's within 5 seconds a day is fantastic, let alone one performing to inside a second. I didn't mean to suggest that performance wasn't outstanding; it is. In my twenty-something son's parlance, "It's sick!"

I just suspected that -- given David's habit of keeping a journal and tracking his M23, day by day -- there might be something in the water in Panama that's similar to what's in my well water, here in Colorado. I'm definitely on the cusp of "OCD" (obsessive compulsive disorder) about mechanical timekeeping. Because Chris and Bes spend so much time regulating their movements (I think to four positions on the machine??), it's possible to keep a Lum-Tec watch "zeroed" by finding the "at rest" position that causes the movement to speed up slightly or slow down slightly. So, in answer to your "Why bother?" my answer is, "Because it's fun!" :thumbup1:

Each of my three Lum-Tec watches has an at-rest position on the nightstand that compensates for ("neutralizes?", "cancels?") the watch's daytime wearing inaccuracy, overnight. My knowing this -- from journaling my watches -- allows me to buy a tall, Starbucks mocha latte for only $3.00, whereas other guests pay $3.00, but don't feel pointlessly smug about the accuracy of their watches. Don't try to decipher that last, unless you journal your mechanical watches! :lol:

I know, when my newest LT arrives in the mail, that I'm going to study it, like Dave -- but instead of just tracking its timekeeping on my wrist -- I'm going to give it a full wind and position it on my nightstand, "crown up," "crown down," "dial up/dial down," "12-up/12-down" (etc., etc) until I can MAKE the movement gain or lose time, overnight. Once I've figured out what the overnight "drift" is in each of the given positions, I can faux-regulate the new watch and keep it "zeroed" so that it stays exactly on time, for months on end.

It's either this, or feed the swans at the local cemetery. Winters are long and SLOW, if you don't ski in Colorado. :biggrin:

 

[BrianS]

Any automatic movement that is -4 to +6 seconds a day is within COSC standards. I prefer mine to be fast if anything, and if it's within +10 seconds a day I'm psyched! :thumbup1:

 

[rshahid]

Absolutely awesome, CT!

I didn't realize how I was coming across.

Any mechanical watch that's within 5 seconds a day is fantastic, let alone one performing to inside a second. I didn't mean to suggest that performance wasn't outstanding; it is. In my twenty-something son's parlance, "It's sick!"

I just suspected that -- given David's habit of keeping a journal and tracking his M23, day by day -- there might be something in the water in Panama that's similar to what's in my well water, here in Colorado. I'm definitely on the cusp of "OCD" (obsessive compulsive disorder) about mechanical timekeeping. Because Chris and Bes spend so much time regulating their movements (I think to four positions on the machine??), it's possible to keep a Lum-Tec watch "zeroed" by finding the "at rest" position that causes the movement to speed up slightly or slow down slightly. So, in answer to your "Why bother?" my answer is, "Because it's fun!" :thumbup1:

Each of my three Lum-Tec watches has an at-rest position on the nightstand that compensates for ("neutralizes?", "cancels?") the watch's daytime wearing inaccuracy, overnight. My knowing this -- from journaling my watches -- allows me to buy a tall, Starbucks mocha latte for only $3.00, whereas other guests pay $3.00, but don't feel pointlessly smug about the accuracy of their watches. Don't try to decipher that last, unless you journal your mechanical watches! :lol:

I know, when my newest LT arrives in the mail, that I'm going to study it, like Dave -- but instead of just tracking its timekeeping on my wrist -- I'm going to give it a full wind and position it on my nightstand, "crown up," "crown down," "dial up/dial down," "12-up/12-down" (etc., etc) until I can MAKE the movement gain or lose time, overnight. Once I've figured out what the overnight "drift" is in each of the given positions, I can faux-regulate the new watch and keep it "zeroed" so that it stays exactly on time, for months on end.

It's either this, or feed the swans at the local cemetery. Winters are long and SLOW, if you don't ski in Colorado. :biggrin:

I'd like to think that knowing exactly how your mechanical watch gains/looses time by varying their resting positions does indeed save you the aggravation of having to go to a watch repair store to have your watch regulated - which can be fairly expensive..

Which brings me to my latest purchase and my first Lum-Tec watch - the M41 that arrived this Sunday. I've been monitoring it's accuracy for a few days now and noticed that its been running slow out of the box. started of with a couple of seconds on the first day and then been going consistently slow, about 5/6 seconds each day - its been a total of 25 seconds slow over a period of 4 days. I've been placing my watch dial-up (face showing) these few days and will be placing the watch in a side resting position - i.e a crown-up position to see if it gains a few seconds.

Seeing that you own a few Lum-Tec models, could you recommend a resting position that would potentially help neutralize this affect?

 

[Ladd Gardner]

I'd like to think that knowing exactly how your mechanical watch gains/looses time by varying their resting positions does indeed save you the aggravation of having to go to a watch repair store to have your watch regulated - which can be fairly expensive..

Which brings me to my latest purchase and my first Lum-Tec watch - the M41 that arrived this Sunday. I've been monitoring it's accuracy for a few days now and noticed that its been running slow out of the box. started of with a couple of seconds on the first day and then been going consistently slow, about 5/6 seconds each day - its been a total of 25 seconds slow over a period of 4 days. I've been placing my watch dial-up (face showing) these few days and will be placing the watch in a side resting position - i.e a crown-up position to see if it gains a few seconds.

Seeing that you own a few Lum-Tec models, could you recommend a resting position that would potentially help neutralize this affect?

Try placing the watch dial-down resting flat on its crystal, overnight, and see what that does. Two of my Lum-Tec's gain time in this position. Let me know if it helps! :wink:

 

[rshahid]

Try placing the watch dial-down resting flat on its crystal, overnight, and see what that does. Two of my Lum-Tec's gain time in this position. Let me know if it helps! :wink:

Thanks... I will give this a try tonight, since placing the watch on its side with crown-up didn't help - lost another couple of seconds overnight.

 

[j-son]

I feel you.....

I have an m51 which I got a month ago...it was about 25 seconds per day fast.
it is my first automatic watch.
I sent it back for timing adjustment and when I got it back, the time was about 3 seconds slow for the first two days which is fine.
after a week I just noticed it was about 30 seconds fast.....about 5 seconds per day and within tolerance.

does anyone else prefer the accuracy of quartz?

 

[Ladd Gardner]

I feel you.....

I have an m51 which I got a month ago...it was about 25 seconds per day fast.
it is my first automatic watch.
I sent it back for timing adjustment and when I got it back, the time was about 3 seconds slow for the first two days which is fine.
after a week I just noticed it was about 30 seconds fast.....about 5 seconds per day and within tolerance.

does anyone else prefer the accuracy of quartz?

I am a big fan of mechanical watches. It's hard to imagine how amazing a feat it is to achieve +/- 5 second accuracy in a wrist watch that's subjected to almost constant movement -- a swirling gravitational field (orientation) -- and the minor bumps and shocks all of our watches receive routinely throughout the day.

All of my Lum-Tecs run within COSC standards, and only the M28 had to be readjusted by a very willing Chris, who sent me pictures of it on his bench. (How cool is THAT?)

I understand your feelings, and I shouldn't pretend otherwise: I get a thrill out wringing every bit of accuracy out of my watches, always by learning their habits and adjusting their positions off the wrist, at night. If your watch is gaining 5 seconds a day, I'll bet I could spend a couple of weeks with it and learn how to compensate for that, overnight, so that it remains "zeroed" (or close to it!) over a week's time.

I've been wearing my Super Combat B2 for a couple of months, and it's now ten seconds fast. I've never reset it -- just wind it, daily in the AM. If I put it on my nightstand face-down (movement up), then it will gain about a second and a half during the night. As I wear it throughout the day, it loses almost exactly that same amount, 1.5 seconds. The result is, my watch is effectively MORE accurate than any reasonably priced quartz alternative, and I don't have to worry about the battery dying. In a pinch -- If I just HAVE to know the exact time -- my cell phone is always close at hand.

If you are not happy with your M51, I'll bet something can be worked out with Lum-Tec.

 

[j-son]

I actually like the watch and wear it everyday since I got it.

I've worn two of the straps and will try the metal one soon.

I just am not sure if I would go for automatic again.

I do like not needing A battery though.


overall I like the watch, the company, and the pleasant emails from the owner.
just not sure how I feel about automatic movement....nothing against lum tec.

 

[Ladd Gardner]

I actually like the watch and wear it everyday since I got it.

I've worn two of the straps and will try the metal one soon.

I just am not sure if I would go for automatic again.

I do like not needing A battery though.


overall I like the watch, the company, and the pleasant emails from the owner.
just not sure how I feel about automatic movement....nothing against lum tec.

No -- I didn't get the feeling you were unhappy with Lum-Tec at all.

I hope I can persuade you to try that nighttime experiment, though. Take note of your watch's time before you retire -- how many seconds fast/slow against a reference, like a quartz and try your watch on the nightstand in different positions, overnight. After a week, or so, of these overnight positionings, you will find one position which causes your watch to lose time -- I guarantee it.

First, make sure your automatic watch has a full wind. Even though it is "self-winding," give it a full charge by winding the crown as per the instructions that accompany your watch's movement (say 40 winds?). Then lay the watch on its side, crown-down on your nightstand, and check it in the morning against the quartz reference clock. Did your watch lose a couple of seconds? Gravity and position affect a watch's movement, big time. Try other positions, overnight, too. With some watches, placing the dial face up causes the watch to gain a few seconds overnight. All of my Lum-Tecs gain time with their dials placed face-down; I don't know why... Every watch is different, but there's probably some relationship between the watchmaker's regulation routine and how your watch is affected by positioning at night. I'm sure that's why all my Lum-Tecs are affected the same way by static orientation.

Really, I just do this for fun. Five seconds per day is incredible accuracy for any mechanical watch.

 

[JulyWest]

I actually like the watch and wear it everyday since I got it.

I've worn two of the straps and will try the metal one soon.

I just am not sure if I would go for automatic again.

I do like not needing A battery though.


overall I like the watch, the company, and the pleasant emails from the owner.
just not sure how I feel about automatic movement....nothing against lum tec.

They both have their place. I like quartz cause its a grab and go. But I like autos for the mechanical details etc..

BTW you may not have to buy a battery but eventually you will have to service that auto so nothing is "free"

 

[timbo]

I do not choose an automatic watch for precise accuracy; theres plenty of electronic stuff around me for that. But I'm surprised how accurate my LT autos are.

 

[Ladd Gardner]

Holy crap, this works!

I grabbed a new M50 a few days ago as a pre-Christmas gift to myself at Sam's Emporium in Akron. Great people btw.

I set the watch to the atomic clock site on my computer and it seemed to run consistently -3 seconds/day, stored dial up at night.

Last night at bed time, it was showing -4 seconds and I decided to rest it face down. This morning it is +3 seconds, for a gain of 7 overnight. I love the idea of being able to regulate my watch this way.

I am beginning to realize the auto vs manual wind thing is just a marketing tool, but I will be happy if I can keep a few seconds accuracy without pulling out the crown.

Yup, each mechanical/auto watch is different, but almost all will either gain or lose a couple seconds depending on their orientation overnight. I haven't reset my SuperCombat B2 since I took it out of its box, early fall, except to correct for the end of Daylight Savings Time (DST). That's -- for me -- a fun thing about this non-hacking movement; you can get the second hand "zeroed," and then change the hour hands when you're traveling, "no muss/no fuss," without having to reset the seconds.

I don't want to resurrect the tired debate about the potential damage from "back-hacking" a watch movement, but I've been doing this for years with all my non-hacking movements and never had a problem resulting therefrom. I've been wearing my SC B2, almost continually, since receiving it because it's so incredibly comfortable, but if I allow it to wind down to the point where the movement stops, I can always re-zero the second hand by giving it a couple winds and -- while the movement is just barely "charged" (very little tension on the mainspring) -- it's very easy to freeze the second hand in position and wait for my reference clock to catch up with it. Once that's done, I simply give the movement a full wind, and I'm good to go for another couple of months, using "nightstand regulation," when necessary.

I WOULD NOT back-hack the movement when the watch's mainspring has lots of stored energy, but that's just me. I am not advocating for back-hacking, mind you, I'm just saying that it's what I do -- very occasionally -- and only when the watch is nearly wound-down, or just being awakened after a slumber and with a couple winds on its spring.

Messing with mechanical/auto watches has been a lifelong love of mine, as has been my fascination with the tracking of time and the science of timekeeping. It's why I also have no interest in quartz watches, synthetic diamonds, electric cars, silicone implants or surfing in "wave pools."

Chaos theory reigns, and I love things with lots of moving parts. :thumbup:

 

[Neil C]

They both have their place. I like quartz cause its a grab and go. But I like autos for the mechanical details etc..

BTW you may not have to buy a battery but eventually you will have to service that auto so nothing is "free"

I have a 22 years old Automatic Seiko Diver's watch that I've worn nearly everyday since 1990, never serviced and is 6 secs a day fast (I like fast). I only reset the time on the first of the month. I shower, swim, mtb, skateboard and crash regulary (ripped of a couple of straps in the process) but the watch keeps going!

Looking forward to my M62 !

Neil.