[Sparhawk]

I have searched hi and low to find information on this pocket watch, maybe the only one out there?
1928 Grade 315 15 Jewels Size 12 movement
Masonic pocket watch listed in No 14 Complete Price Guide to Watches Page 191.
Case Salesman with crystals both sides - Original porcelain dial, hands and crown.

Has anyone see one of these pocket watches, will be selling to US Collector or US Watch Museum what do you think

 

[mikeyt_53]

I highly doubt that its 'the only one out there' but its an okay example. The movement looks to be in good shape but the dial is a bit overdone by someone other than Elgin.

 

[CometHunter]

While I have no doubt the porcelain dial is original, I have doubts about the Masonic devices (the drawings or emblems) being painted on at the Elgin factory. They just appear too crudely drawn when compared to all other Masonic watches I have seen over the years. Except for the different colorings, they almost look like they were drawn with a Sharpie at a kitchen table.
Then there's the fact the drawings share a lot of the dial's real estate with regular numerals. On regularly produced commercial Masonic dials, the devices would REPLACE or logically co-exist with the numerals rather than be drawn almost on top of them! And the numerals wouldn't be so glaringly large. In fact, it is quite common for a Masonic watch dial to not have numerals at all!

While I have no doubt you have a one-of-a-kind watch, I wouldn't count on it having any value other than being a vintage Elgin pocket watch. I wouldn't waste my time on museums, unless you can prove the watch was owned by a famous MAster Mason like Walt Disney, Gen. Omar Bradley, John Wayne, Franklin D. /Teddy Roosevelt, etc. I see you having better luck with regular Elgin collectors.
Good luck.

 

[Sparhawk]

Thanks Guys for the replies, do you have any documentation on what was the actual dial look like as I don't disagree with what you have saying surely there must be an example of the dial sold as described in the publication. But again thanks again, I will add any information I find to the post.

 

[mikeyt_53]

I haven't personally seen one but then i haven't been looking for them either. Your movement was number 265 out of a run of 329 and there were approximately 8000 of those Grade 315 movements made in 1928. Unfortunately i dont think Elgin recorded what dials were attached to each of those watches so there wont likely be any documentation showing how many masonic versions were produced or sold that year. You could check over at the NAWCC forum. Someone there might have that information.

 

[Sparhawk]

I haven't personally seen one but then i haven't been looking for them either. Your movement was number 265 out of a run of 329 and there were approximately 8000 of those Grade 315 movements made in 1928. Unfortunately i dont think Elgin recorded what dials were attached to each of those watches so there wont likely be any documentation showing how many masonic versions were produced or sold that year. You could check over at the NAWCC forum. Someone there might have that information.

Appreciate your information posted here. My pictures aren't the best quality but the detail on the dial is definitely clear and sharp in 'real life'. I will need to strip down the watch and I will inspect the back of the dial - it may provide some more information. Indeed, its always hard to obtain accurate information on these particular watches but I will see how I go in my ongoing quest to do so. Cheers.

 

[Sparhawk]

Came across this Video, in relation to Elgin Painted Dials ceased approx 1888c and a new process of transfer decal
Elgin Pocket Watch Dials: Hand-Painted vs. Transfer Process

After cleaning the dial which has 94 years of grim on it, came perfect hard to get the camera to focus on the symbols as it always focuses on the numerals.

 

[Time in the pocket]

I do not believe Elgin did that dial. Look at how nice and crisp the numbers on the dial are and then look at all the symbols. Not even close to the same workmanship. The dial was done by someone else other than Elgin and not very well.

 

[Sparhawk]

Thanks for your reply and your opinion, The video explains that from 1888 all picture dial are decals overlays on porcelain dials, no doubt you have seen dials with flowers, trains and horses on the faces on vintage dials these dial pictures are not sharp either. To give you another example during the Great War this dial was produced for Waltham and has a swiss made stamp on back. (again not hand painted) but a very rare dial.

The masonic dial itself is an Elgin original dial and you can see that the decal lies on top especially around the sub second hand and the dial has a final coat of glaze sealing the decal, as for detail, sharpness and artwork of the decal, I can't say anything about the artwork it was 1928 when this watch was produced and here I am in 2022 looking for facts.

What I have is a Elgin dial with Masonic artwork incorporated on the dial,
Elgin Grade 315 15 Jewels movement, and
Salesman Case

I believe the Elgin Masonic watch dial was not a big seller as it was a Generic Masonic style (maybe this is why its hard to find anything on this watch). My under standing that every masonic belong to a lodge and most Masons purchased or where gifted watches from their respective lodge.

 

[BunkerBoy]

It may be real and original but I'd suggest its not very attractive and for that reason it may not bring much in when sold.