Just how does Rolex handle "questionable" watches/parts?

[edrosin]

Folks,

Need your expert advice on this one as it's proving to be a fascinating and very nerve-wracking issue for me:

I purchased a 1665 Maxi-Dial SD dating back to 1980 several months ago and, more recently, a 1530 - both from the same trader.

The SD had a rattle from within, and one bracelet pin on the 1530 was coming out, while another pin near the watch clasp was clearly not a Rolex part (it was visibly hollow for starters...).

I brought both timepieces to the largest Rolex dealer in Brussels who I've known for years and he told me the following:

1. Rolexes that have been out of the Rolex service network for too long (he insinuated somewhere around the 20-year mark) are usually refused service.
2. If the Rolex you submit has non-Rolex parts inside it (read movement, crown and other mechanical pieces), or indeed has mismatching movements and cases, they either confiscate it or remove the offending part, rendering the watch non-operative.
3. When a Rolex is serviced, a tiny stamp is left on the watch case back to indicate it has indeed been serviced in-house.

Now, he had his in-shop technician open both watches before sending them off to the mother ship and confirmed neither had ever been serviced by Rolex before, lacking the corresponding stamp. He wanted to double-check I was sure I wanted to send them into Rolex. I told him I wanted to know that my watches were correct, or not, with the latter meaning I need to have a difficult conversation with my trader...

Anyways, I would be very grateful for your experience and feedback about exactly what may give cause for Rolex to refuse/confiscate a timepiece, and whether they actually have the legal authority to keep a watch that presents "problems"?

Thanks to all,

Eric.

[omega564]

Generally speaking , minor parts such as braclet pins and screws are just replaced unless they have damaged the case and braclet.You are billed for changing tubes and crowns and mov't parts that are not genuine where as you may not have been had they been genuine and would have been included in the regular service cost, if an older watch (25 yrs or more) has been butchered they will just refuse service. As far as confiscating anything ,that is generally in regards to fake bezels and altered dials (added diamonds) and they must compensate you for the value of the raw goods, gold weight etc.They do this under copyright and patent infringment laws.I have been the senior watchmaker at a large Rolex dealer for years(about 400 servicings per year 1400 for the whole shop that i oversee) and this has been my experience.We see this problem alot.

[edrosin]

Dear omega564,

Thanks so much for the info. I understand everything except the part where Rolex refuse to service the watch it it's older than 25-30 years, even if it has been butchered internally. My question is: why?

Surely Rolex could simply quote a price to get the watch internals back as they should be and leave the choice to the customer, rather than flatly refusing to service a watch they originally made?

I have read an arguments related to the costs of servicing older, butchered watches; the liability in case of very valuable vintage pieces and the preference to keep parts for those customers who regularly bring their pieces back into the fold. But I still don't get why the choice isn't at least offered to those who want to keep their watches serviced by their maker...

Thanks for your thoughts.

Best,

Eric.

Generally speaking , minor parts such as braclet pins and screws are just replaced unless they have damaged the case and braclet.You are billed for changing tubes and crowns and mov't parts that are not genuine where as you may not have been had they been genuine and would have been included in the regular service cost, if an older watch (25 yrs or more) has been butchered they will just refuse service. As far as confiscating anything ,that is generally in regards to fake bezels and altered dials (added diamonds) and they must compensate you for the value of the raw goods, gold weight etc.They do this under copyright and patent infringment laws.I have been the senior watchmaker at a large Rolex dealer for years(about 400 servicings per year 1400 for the whole shop that i oversee) and this has been my experience.We see this problem alot.

[AAKVIPER]

For example Rolex USA has a very inconsistent perception regarding if a watch is vintage or not. Rolex NYC will not take in a watch older then 30 years old for some costumers because of 15xx part shortages, but for some clients Rolex will find the parts to service the 30 year old watch. It is who you know in my opinion.

Rolex USA service centers will not take in and service any Military or Comex Subs or Sea Dwellers, Paul Newman Daytonas, 1680 or 1665 Red dialed watches. Ironicly Rolex UK, Hong Kong, Canada or Australia will take in these watches for service.

This bias mannerism on selecting which vintage watch to service is occurring because each Rolex service center are more autonomous then one thinks from father Rolex. The head person from each service division has the final say of which year and models each service center will take in.

Unfair practice? Very much so. The scuttlebutt is the Rolex is working on a proper heritage division for the vintage world. Let us see if this move by Rolex can bring some consistency to us collectors regarding a proper service.

Cheers Arthur

[omega564]

Nice post Arthur, I heard the same thing and your right about "it's who you know".Someone at the NYSC (who will remain nameless) would send me vintage parts "at no charge , as a courtesy of Rolex" with a letter stating that and that Rolex assumes no responisbility for the completion of the repair. I would pass these letters along to the customer and of course not charge for the part. A heritage division sounds like a good way to accomodate the collectors while keeping the SC's productive. I wonder if they will take transplantable organs in leu of cash?

[edrosin]

That's a rumour that I truly hope comes true, as all of us vintage fetishists have been having to prowl the woods for far too long. About time Rolex gave us some proper TLC.

Agree that the arbitrary manner in which RSCs can decide whether or not to service a watch is nonsense indeed. The mothership needs to get a handle on it quickly..

Thanks for the great feedback!

Eric.

Nice post Arthur, I heard the same thing and your right about "it's who you know".Someone at the NYSC (who will remain nameless) would send me vintage parts "at no charge , as a courtesy of Rolex" with a letter stating that and that Rolex assumes no responisbility for the completion of the repair. I would pass these letters along to the customer and of course not charge for the part. A heritage division sounds like a good way to accomodate the collectors while keeping the SC's productive. I wonder if they will take transplantable organs in leu of cash?

[omega564]

There is the point that where is WAAAY too much money out there for rolex not to be interested.Especially with the vintage prices going skyward.They must be aware what adding
" Reconditioned by Rolex Heritage Division" will add significant value and that collectors would pay dearly to add that monacer to thier pieces.

[N2FHL]

On the other hand, not many companies get involved with restoring their old stuff. It is really a different business. Even the RSC's don't have watchmakers experienced in making parts and small factory runs of obsolete parts would be too expensive.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I thinks Rolex likes it just the way it is- easier and more profitable to sell you a new one.

Steve

[edrosin]

They created a Ferrari Classiche division whose mission is to "set the absolute reference point that guarantees the originality of cars over 20 years old, and to maintain past production with not only an extensive programme of re-manufacturing, but also actual restoration at the factory."

Brilliant. Constructive. Intuitive.

And yes, I know Ferrari doesn't have 30 million timepieces floating out there, but this is the way to actually reward brand loyalty, not penalise it.

Link:

The new Ferrari Classiche division - Classic Driver - MAGAZINE - news

On the other hand, not many companies get involved with restoring their old stuff. It is really a different business. Even the RSC's don't have watchmakers experienced in making parts and small factory runs of obsolete parts would be too expensive.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I thinks Rolex likes it just the way it is- easier and more profitable to sell you a new one.

Steve

[omega564]

It's not really that difficult to have these parts re manufactured.Take for example vintage hamiltons.Do you think that there are just Extra balance staffs floating around 70 years after the watch was produced. They too produced millions of units. What happens is that ,the larger material houses get together every 10 years or so and have a "jobber" produce 10,000 staffs,as that supply dwindels the price goes up and then boom every material house in the us has them on sale for $20 ea. I'm certain that Rolex is capable of doing the same thing .I come across the clips or gibs for the bubble back automatics more often now than i did 20 years ago. Somebody is making them and BTW they work just fine.How do you think that all these vintage pieces are comming to market?